Formula 1 2017 - Page 3 - McLaren Life
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post #31 of 1684 Old 01-06-2017, 10:39 PM
 
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McLaren to run redesigned Honda engine in 2017 season

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/124...in-2017-season
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post #32 of 1684 Old 01-06-2017, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
 
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McLaren to run redesigned Honda engine in 2017 season

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/124...in-2017-season
Yes the rumors are a repositioning of a larger compressor outside of the engine V, which will still house the turbine. And if not TJI (turbulent jet ignition), as used on Ferrari and Mercedes, a new ignition system. Hoping this new Honda PU and McLaren aero can get us a podium soon!
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post #33 of 1684 Old 01-07-2017, 02:12 AM
 
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Renault is going with a very advanced concept for their engine later in the year. Ferrari also are bringing it for the engine. God knows what more Mercedes can find with unlimited tokens. Honda will be hard pressed to keep up because the bar is being raised significantly higher each season
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post #34 of 1684 Old 01-07-2017, 03:13 AM
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Anyone have an idea of when these new cars will break cover?


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post #35 of 1684 Old 01-07-2017, 03:25 AM Thread Starter
 
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Anyone have an idea of when these new cars will break cover?


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Think most will be seen in Feb
Ferrari Feb 24th
Force India Feb 22 Silverstone
Mercedes Feb23
Renault Feb 21
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post #36 of 1684 Old 01-07-2017, 06:46 AM Thread Starter
 
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post #37 of 1684 Old 01-07-2017, 02:21 PM
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Imo the blurb about aero rule changes to make the cars quicker is a red herring and totally misses the point about the problem with F1 or at least the cars nevermind the politics.... The cars I'd say absolutely do not need to get quicker in absolute terms. What they desperately need are tyres that are able to be able to do run far closer to maximum achievable pace and for the aero rules to allow for cars to run closer to each other ie less aero. Years ago when aero was less complex already, I remember Adrian Newey saying in an interview that they already pretty much could design a diffusor that would seriously impede any following car. Goodness knows what they can do now which is why completely artificial passing aids like drs are required most of the time without huge differences in speed between cars.

The 2016 cars are not slow - qualifying shows that with lap times close to outright lap records. It's just that their race laps are miles behind qualifying pace and the drivers are obviously not working the machinery to it's limits. Pirelli supposedly have got a better lasting tyre now but if the cars are truly another 5 seconds or whatever faster and the tyres can't cope again and cars end up loafing about on tyre conservation mode for most of the race then the whole thing would have been a complete waste of time.
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post #38 of 1684 Old 01-07-2017, 02:48 PM
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We need less aero, more driver involvement, and an end to the bogus tyre stuff.
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post #39 of 1684 Old 01-07-2017, 04:09 PM Thread Starter
 
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The 2016 cars are not slow - qualifying shows that with lap times close to outright lap records. It's just that their race laps are miles behind qualifying pace and the drivers are obviously not working the machinery to it's limits. Pirelli supposedly have got a better lasting tyre now but if the cars are truly another 5 seconds or whatever faster and the tyres can't cope again and cars end up loafing about on tyre conservation mode for most of the race then the whole thing would have been a complete waste of time.
Yes the difference in best qualifying times and racing lap times is large--almost different cars!
In Q3 the cars have an additional set of the softest tires available for qualifying use. So the "setup" toe in, camber etc can be done without regard to race tire life. The cars are not limited in DRS usage for qualifying and can make adjustments of some aero heights. IIRC even gearing can be selected for a flying lap. Also the cars are qualifying with minimum fuel loads on fresh tires. Unlike the race car which starts with full tank and finishes the race on worn tires. So yes qualifying lap times won't be met or bettered during the race--well unless qualifying is done in the wet and the race in dry!
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post #40 of 1684 Old 01-07-2017, 05:56 PM
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Yes the difference in best qualifying times and racing lap times is large--almost different cars!
In Q3 the cars have an additional set of the softest tires available for qualifying use. So the "setup" toe in, camber etc can be done without regard to race tire life. The cars are not limited in DRS usage for qualifying and can make adjustments of some aero heights. IIRC even gearing can be selected for a flying lap. Also the cars are qualifying with minimum fuel loads on fresh tires. Unlike the race car which starts with full tank and finishes the race on worn tires. So yes qualifying lap times won't be met or bettered during the race--well unless qualifying is done in the wet and the race in dry!
The setup can't be dramatically changed between qualifying and race as the cars are locked in parc ferme I thought? So effectively they are qualifying on race trim. Just like if a wet race is expected with Saturday dry or vice versa. Obviously the cars are quicker in qualifying, no one is expecting the fastest race laps (especially excluding unusual late pit stops for a front running car) to equal qualifying but the gap is ludicrous and as I said bigger than ever before due to the tyres going to the pots if pushed hard.

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We need less aero, more driver involvement,
You sure you are in the F1 section or talking about modern road cars.....

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post #41 of 1684 Old 01-08-2017, 03:07 PM
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The setup can't be dramatically changed between qualifying and race as the cars are locked in parc ferme I thought? So effectively they are qualifying on race trim. Just like if a wet race is expected with Saturday dry or vice versa.
Correct. Once the car is in park ferme (actually, once it has begun Q1), essentially nothing can be changed except tyres and to add fuel. Ride height change is a no-go, likewise wing angles, which may be changed only after the race itself has started.
As for changing gear ratios, a team has to decide its ratios before the season begins and must keep those ratios for the entire season, regardless of differences in circuits.
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post #42 of 1684 Old 01-09-2017, 04:12 AM Thread Starter
 
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Correct. Once the car is in park ferme (actually, once it has begun Q1), essentially nothing can be changed except tyres and to add fuel. Ride height change is a no-go, likewise wing angles, which may be changed only after the race itself has started.
As for changing gear ratios, a team has to decide its ratios before the season begins and must keep those ratios for the entire season, regardless of differences in circuits.
Well the rule says:-
n) "The aerodynamic set up of the front wing may be adjusted using the existing parts. No parts may be added, removed or replaced."

My understanding is that there can be no changes to components but there can be setup adjustments e.g. changes to toe in and camber settings that can speed up tire heating would be allowed. Basically parc ferme is intended to only allow adjustments that would or could be made during race conditions-- tire change pit stops. Also I recall in an earlier post of yours reference to fuel selection, here two fuel blends are allowed for a race. Again a different fuel mix could be used during qualifying than that used during the race-- I don't know if there are any advantages to be gained. All fluids can be changed during parc ferme.
The cars are clearly faster during qualifying.
And yes you and ISV are correct in stating gear ratios can't be changed.
My mistake.
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post #43 of 1684 Old 01-09-2017, 06:39 AM
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Well the rule says:-
n) "The aerodynamic set up of the front wing may be adjusted using the existing parts. No parts may be added, removed or replaced."

My understanding is that there can be no changes to components but there can be setup adjustments e.g. changes to toe in and camber settings that can speed up tire heating would be allowed. Basically parc ferme is intended to only allow adjustments that would or could be made during race conditions-- tire change pit stops. Also I recall in an earlier post of yours reference to fuel selection, here two fuel blends are allowed for a race. Again a different fuel mix could be used during qualifying than that used during the race-- I don't know if there are any advantages to be gained. All fluids can be changed during parc ferme.
The cars are clearly faster during qualifying.
And yes you and ISV are correct in stating gear ratios can't be changed.
My mistake.
From official F1 website:

  • However, the cars are deemed to be under parc ferme conditions for a much longer period - from the time they first exit the pits during qualifying until the start of the formation lap immediately prior to the race.
  • Under these conditions, the work teams may carry out on their cars is limited to strictly-specified routine procedures, which can only be performed under the watchful eye of the FIA Technical Delegate and race scrutineers.
  • Fuel may be added to the cars, tyres changed and brakes bled. Minor front wing adjustments are also allowed, but little else. These controls mean that teams cannot make significant alterations to the set-up of a car between qualifying and the race.
  • The only exception to this is when there is a "change in climatic conditions", for example a dry qualifying session followed by a wet race, or vice versa. In this case the FIA will give the teams permission to make further appropriate changes to their cars.
The exceptions for a "change in climatic conditions" relate to brake ducts and cooling apertures, not car set-up.

I don't recall having made a previous comment about fuel selection, although these days there is a lot that I cannot recall.
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post #44 of 1684 Old 01-09-2017, 08:30 AM
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The cars are clearly faster during qualifying.
Beyond the obvious effects of fresh ultra-soft tyres and fuel load (a lap's worth of fuel can slow a car down by more than 0.1 sec/lap on a typical circuit), there is the effect of DRS. During the race, you may use DRS only when you are within 1 sec of the car ahead, but, if you are within 1 second of the car ahead, that car will be slowing you down. In qualifying you are allowed to use DRS (within the designated zones) when you are in free air.
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post #45 of 1684 Old 01-09-2017, 02:36 PM
 
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I may be bitterly dissapointed as early as Melbourne but I must say that I am very excited for the coming season to start. This is simply down to the new formula, like it or not, there will be many unknowns and that at least calls for some excitement. At least from me. Interested to see what the new rumored Ferrari Livery will be as well as if Mclaren has anything better than Sensodyne to put on the car

-no McLaren...yet
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