Another Prospective 12c Buyer - McLaren Life
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post #1 of 14 Old 02-12-2019, 01:21 PM Thread Starter
 
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Another Prospective 12c Buyer

Hey everyone,


Been prospecting the next toy and I've had my eyes on the 12c for years. I prefer the appearance to the later models by my bias, but I also like weird cars, so take me with a grain of salt. I am already familiar with some of the finagling that occurs with oddball British machines (have a Lotus Exige in my garage also), so I'm half primed for this I think.


In researching a ton of cars, I've got a few concerns that other threads "sort of" exist on, but I wanted to see feedback from the community:


- Head failures: I've seen these primarily listed on 2012 models. I've heard rumor this stuff can occur on other models. I haven't seen any documentation on it from searching, though. Are the 2012's that much of a concern?
- Head failures pt. 2: Has the aftermarket corrected these issues at all upon failure? I haven't found any explicit documentation on what exactly is failing. If it meant building the motor after the failure due to how it is failing, I'd almost rather pay for that than hope the OEM replacer works better next time.

- Iris 2: Is it worth it? I'm considering narrowing my search to only vehicles that have had the upgrade but I don't know if it matters enough to care without experience.

- Gearbox failures: I've seen some information on the seeping gearboxes triggering full blown replacements over what appears to be a seal. Has the aftermarket remedied this yet?


For context, I don't mind a car out of warranty as I have my local Lotus garage who does a ton of work on anything from their Lotus to Astons and even the occasional De Tomaso, so they should be theoretically equipped to at least know when to say they can't handle it. Further, I'm 1.5hrs from McLaren Toronto (I'm on the States side by Buffalo). Last, I don't really mind doing some DIY - I've done enough work on the Lotus over the years plus other cars I've tracked, so this doesn't scare me too much. Acquisition of parts and aftermarket availability are bigger fears potentially just due to availability.



I have some skepticism due to other headaches that the McL forum seems to indicate that the factory warranty extension is even worth it due to their unwillingness to cover certain claims, but could be swayed into a warrantied car if the collective think here is that the cost benefit ratio is a near-guaranteed win. I don't mind paying for repairs out of pocket, but obviously there's no reason to throw away money.


Thanks folks!
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post #2 of 14 Old 02-12-2019, 01:42 PM
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post #3 of 14 Old 02-12-2019, 04:02 PM
 
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I'm no expert, but here's my opinion, FWIW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhal View Post
- Head failures: I've seen these primarily listed on 2012 models. I've heard rumor this stuff can occur on other models. I haven't seen any documentation on it from searching, though. Are the 2012's that much of a concern?
- Head failures pt. 2: Has the aftermarket corrected these issues at all upon failure? I haven't found any explicit documentation on what exactly is failing. If it meant building the motor after the failure due to how it is failing, I'd almost rather pay for that than hope the OEM replacer works better next time.
Potential engine issues are the biggest factor in me requiring an ESC qualified car. The engine is McLaren-specific, so I would not expect a decent level of aftermarket support. Personally, I wouldn't expect the aftermarket to do a better design job than McLaren / Ricardo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhal View Post
- Iris 2: Is it worth it? I'm considering narrowing my search to only vehicles that have had the upgrade but I don't know if it matters enough to care without experience.
It depends what you would use it for / how much it would annoy you. I class it as a 'nice to have'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhal View Post
- Gearbox failures: I've seen some information on the seeping gearboxes triggering full blown replacements over what appears to be a seal. Has the aftermarket remedied this yet?
I've seen ones that have had just the seal replaced. If an ESC covers a whole new unit, I wouldn't complain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhal View Post
For context, I don't mind a car out of warranty as I have my local Lotus garage who does a ton of work on anything from their Lotus to Astons and even the occasional De Tomaso, so they should be theoretically equipped to at least know when to say they can't handle it. Further, I'm 1.5hrs from McLaren Toronto (I'm on the States side by Buffalo). Last, I don't really mind doing some DIY - I've done enough work on the Lotus over the years plus other cars I've tracked, so this doesn't scare me too much. Acquisition of parts and aftermarket availability are bigger fears potentially just due to availability.
My view is that McLaren parts prices are very high, so I'd rather have the peace of mind of an ESC. It won't cover everything though. As above, my biggest concern would be the engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhal View Post
I have some skepticism due to other headaches that the McL forum seems to indicate that the factory warranty extension is even worth it due to their unwillingness to cover certain claims, but could be swayed into a warrantied car if the collective think here is that the cost benefit ratio is a near-guaranteed win. I don't mind paying for repairs out of pocket, but obviously there's no reason to throw away money.
I don't know if McLaren make money on the ESC. They obviously get discount parts and labour though, but will also want to protect their reliability reputation.
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post #4 of 14 Old 02-12-2019, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnixon View Post
I'm no expert, but here's my opinion, FWIW.

Potential engine issues are the biggest factor in me requiring an ESC qualified car. The engine is McLaren-specific, so I would not expect a decent level of aftermarket support. Personally, I wouldn't expect the aftermarket to do a better design job than McLaren / Ricardo.


It depends what you would use it for / how much it would annoy you. I class it as a 'nice to have'.


I've seen ones that have had just the seal replaced. If an ESC covers a whole new unit, I wouldn't complain.


My view is that McLaren parts prices are very high, so I'd rather have the peace of mind of an ESC. It won't cover everything though. As above, my biggest concern would be the engine.


I don't know if McLaren make money on the ESC. They obviously get discount parts and labour though, but will also want to protect their reliability reputation.
Well spoken.

ESC will cover head/engine issues if you have them. But the issue isn't that they break all the time, it's that parts are absurdly expensive. IMO plan on having a qualified car with ESC and keep the smile on your face all day.

-Troy

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post #5 of 14 Old 02-14-2019, 05:07 PM
 
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I think the ECS is a huge waste of money. Everything I wanted fixed with mine was not covered. (Lights fogging, iris issue, hose leaks, etc) I have heard of a couple aftermarket transmission companies fixing the seal. I do wish I had Iris 2 for sirius but not enough to upgrade it while mine is working. With more 3rd party service garages starting to work on Mclarens it will make the repairs bills better because parts can be had much cheaper online through guys like xprd then going to the dealer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jhal View Post
Hey everyone,


Been prospecting the next toy and I've had my eyes on the 12c for years. I prefer the appearance to the later models by my bias, but I also like weird cars, so take me with a grain of salt. I am already familiar with some of the finagling that occurs with oddball British machines (have a Lotus Exige in my garage also), so I'm half primed for this I think.


In researching a ton of cars, I've got a few concerns that other threads "sort of" exist on, but I wanted to see feedback from the community:


- Head failures: I've seen these primarily listed on 2012 models. I've heard rumor this stuff can occur on other models. I haven't seen any documentation on it from searching, though. Are the 2012's that much of a concern?
- Head failures pt. 2: Has the aftermarket corrected these issues at all upon failure? I haven't found any explicit documentation on what exactly is failing. If it meant building the motor after the failure due to how it is failing, I'd almost rather pay for that than hope the OEM replacer works better next time.

- Iris 2: Is it worth it? I'm considering narrowing my search to only vehicles that have had the upgrade but I don't know if it matters enough to care without experience.

- Gearbox failures: I've seen some information on the seeping gearboxes triggering full blown replacements over what appears to be a seal. Has the aftermarket remedied this yet?


For context, I don't mind a car out of warranty as I have my local Lotus garage who does a ton of work on anything from their Lotus to Astons and even the occasional De Tomaso, so they should be theoretically equipped to at least know when to say they can't handle it. Further, I'm 1.5hrs from McLaren Toronto (I'm on the States side by Buffalo). Last, I don't really mind doing some DIY - I've done enough work on the Lotus over the years plus other cars I've tracked, so this doesn't scare me too much. Acquisition of parts and aftermarket availability are bigger fears potentially just due to availability.



I have some skepticism due to other headaches that the McL forum seems to indicate that the factory warranty extension is even worth it due to their unwillingness to cover certain claims, but could be swayed into a warrantied car if the collective think here is that the cost benefit ratio is a near-guaranteed win. I don't mind paying for repairs out of pocket, but obviously there's no reason to throw away money.


Thanks folks!
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post #6 of 14 Old 02-14-2019, 05:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdurbahn View Post
I think the ECS is a huge waste of money. Everything I wanted fixed with mine was not covered. (Lights fogging, iris issue, hose leaks, etc) I have heard of a couple aftermarket transmission companies fixing the seal. I do wish I had Iris 2 for sirius but not enough to upgrade it while mine is working. With more 3rd party service garages starting to work on Mclarens it will make the repairs bills better because parts can be had much cheaper online through guys like xprd then going to the dealer.
An ESC will not pay for itself for many people - it's an insurance policy. We don't expect to be ahead on car, or home, insurance either - it's all about limiting your exposure.

It's great to have cheaper repair options, although the cost of many parts will still be high, due to controlled supply and low volume.
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post #7 of 14 Old 02-14-2019, 06:40 PM
 
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Meh, ESC - never had one, never will.



Admittedly I am in a different league mechanically than most people. I am a Porsche engine builder and make my own engine cases and have an automotive machine shop as well, so blowing up an engine to me is a chance to build it better.


As far as engineering an engine better than McLaren - YES its possible absolutely. I do it with Porsche all the time. You see, Mac and Porsche are PRODUCTION car builders. As such, there are lots of compromises in the build and they are very easy to improve upon even from a straight metals standpoint.


I realize most people won't have the resources I have and I don't mean to sound aloof or overconfident but with a SUPERCAR like the 12C you kind of have to take the plunge and be prepared to shell out bucks to keep it.


I have had my 12C for all of one week, and I LOVE this car. Look at my sig to see what else is in the garage so you know where I am coming from. There is a metric shit ton of improvement the car could have had, but IMHO Mac absolutely nailed it.


Can't go wrong.
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post #8 of 14 Old 02-14-2019, 06:54 PM
 
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I don't think ESC is worth it - overall car has been reliable. Its a personal decision.

Trans and head issues are overblown. Just avoid the very early 12s to be safe. I think post the first 500 or so. you can look at the last 4 digits of the VIN to determine.
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post #9 of 14 Old 02-15-2019, 12:02 AM
 
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I have a 2014 Volcano red Spider for sale. It has 11,175 miles on it, and it has a new warranty which is valid through February 2020. It is near perfect and has never been hit. No scratches or dings ever. I nned to get $135K for it. Let me know if you have any interest. Location is Southern California.

Regards,

Rick


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post #10 of 14 Old 02-15-2019, 12:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catorce View Post
Look at my sig to see what else is in the garage so you know where I am coming from. There is a metric shit ton of improvement the car could have had, but IMHO Mac absolutely nailed it.

How do you like it compared to your 570S?
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post #11 of 14 Old 02-15-2019, 12:22 AM
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You will find the best collection of DIY Info for your P11 right here!!!

https://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/m...lf-thread.html

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post #12 of 14 Old 02-15-2019, 03:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I have a 2014 Volcano red Spider for sale. It has 11,175 miles on it, and it has a new warranty which is valid through February 2020. It is near perfect and has never been hit. No scratches or dings ever. I nned to get $135K for it. Let me know if you have any interest. Location is Southern California.

Regards,

Rick


[email protected]
661-600-3744
I'v seen Rick's car, and it's beautiful. It's the only car that I've seen with no scrapes under the nose.
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post #13 of 14 Old 02-15-2019, 02:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff M View Post
How do you like it compared to your 570S?

The 570 is the car I bought for me that the wife took over probably 30 seconds after I got it home. Which is OK, because I like the 12C much better. Why?
- 12C has more presence
-12C interior way better for my height at 6-3"
-I love the tech in the 12C that is not present in the 570 (aero, etc)




570 is still a stupid fast car and computer screen wise much more advanced, but it does not FEEL like a Super Series car, which is OK, because it's not.



570 suits my wife a heck of a lot better and seems easier to drive for her, less blind spots, better rear visibility, fast shifting trans.



Two different cars here not sure I would be cross shopping them.
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73 911T RS Clone
75 911 Turbo Targa
78 928 - 6.54L
83 911 Euro SC
88 928S4
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07 997 Twin Turbo
09 997 Twin Turbo
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post #14 of 14 Old 02-15-2019, 08:13 PM
 
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Thanks for the comparo Catorce.
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