Can you run E85(Ethanol) in the 12C? - McLaren Life
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 6 Old 05-07-2014, 02:43 PM Thread Starter
Owner
Owner
 
onefastturbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 20
Can you run E85(Ethanol) in the 12C?

E85 flex fuel is supposed to increase power and performance as well as have the turbos run cooler. Is the 12C motor qualified to use that fuel?

2012 McLaren MP4-12C
2014 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk
2014 Nissan GTR
onefastturbo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 6 Old 05-07-2014, 02:56 PM
Sponsor
Sponsor
 
Fabspeed Motorsport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Fort Washington, PA
Posts: 1,276
I am not sure about the MP4, but in my past life I used to build a lot of import and domestic drag cars and when converting to e85 we had to run massive injectors, sometimes two fuel pumps, and re-tune the car. they always did make great power though! I know a lot of people run a blend.
Fabspeed Motorsport is offline  
post #3 of 6 Old 05-07-2014, 03:48 PM
Owner
 
Shawn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: San Diego
Posts: 801
Don't do it! Ethanol is terribly corrosive and you should avoid it whenever possible. In the mid 1990s I worked for Siemens for several years as a fuel systems engineer for the OEM automotive market, and you would not believe the damage Ethanol does to fuel system components (o-ring seals, injector orifices, even metal sealing surfaces, etc.) It is a terrible idea to use Ethanol (even an E10 or E15 blend), and it is only used in the US because the Farm Lobby has donated sufficiently to politicians that they mandated its use.

I don't know if there's a power increase (the specific energy of Ethanol per unit volume is lower than gasoline, but it can tolerate more aggressive ignition mapping, so in some circumstances you probably could see a power boost), but that will likely be offset by increased maintenance costs replacing seals, injectors, etc.

Go to any boating forum, search "Ethanol", and you'll see what I mean. It tends to damage marine engines even more because they often sit unused longer than a typical car.
Shawn is offline  
 
post #4 of 6 Old 05-07-2014, 05:50 PM Thread Starter
Owner
Owner
 
onefastturbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
Don't do it! Ethanol is terribly corrosive and you should avoid it whenever possible. In the mid 1990s I worked for Siemens for several years as a fuel systems engineer for the OEM automotive market, and you would not believe the damage Ethanol does to fuel system components (o-ring seals, injector orifices, even metal sealing surfaces, etc.) It is a terrible idea to use Ethanol (even an E10 or E15 blend), and it is only used in the US because the Farm Lobby has donated sufficiently to politicians that they mandated its use.

I don't know if there's a power increase (the specific energy of Ethanol per unit volume is lower than gasoline, but it can tolerate more aggressive ignition mapping, so in some circumstances you probably could see a power boost), but that will likely be offset by increased maintenance costs replacing seals, injectors, etc.

Go to any boating forum, search "Ethanol", and you'll see what I mean. It tends to damage marine engines even more because they often sit unused longer than a typical car.
thanks so much for that valuable info- no ethanol for me!!

2012 McLaren MP4-12C
2014 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk
2014 Nissan GTR
onefastturbo is offline  
post #5 of 6 Old 05-08-2014, 12:03 AM
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
Don't do it! Ethanol is terribly corrosive and you should avoid it whenever possible. In the mid 1990s I worked for Siemens for several years as a fuel systems engineer for the OEM automotive market, and you would not believe the damage Ethanol does to fuel system components (o-ring seals, injector orifices, even metal sealing surfaces, etc.) It is a terrible idea to use Ethanol (even an E10 or E15 blend), and it is only used in the US because the Farm Lobby has donated sufficiently to politicians that they mandated its use.

I don't know if there's a power increase (the specific energy of Ethanol per unit volume is lower than gasoline, but it can tolerate more aggressive ignition mapping, so in some circumstances you probably could see a power boost), but that will likely be offset by increased maintenance costs replacing seals, injectors, etc.

Go to any boating forum, search "Ethanol", and you'll see what I mean. It tends to damage marine engines even more because they often sit unused longer than a typical car.
You make many good points regarding the corrosive nature of ethanol except that 1960s technology is no longer in wide use today. I am willing to bet that McLaren like all car manufacturers are fully aware of ethanol. I would bet a king's ransom that the car's fuel system, lines, rails, gas tank, etc... are bullet proof to the affects of ethanol.

I would not run it because you would need a tune for it and the ecu would freak out. IF you could tune for it, then you would make massive power gains from the cooling effects, alone. I would guess 50 hp, at least, with more ignition advance. You would need bigger fuel injectors but probably not a bigger pump.
MP4Dream is offline  
post #6 of 6 Old 05-08-2014, 01:44 AM
MmmmcLaren
 
Osiris_x11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Austin-TX | NYC-NY
Posts: 1,374
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by MP4Dream View Post
You make many good points regarding the corrosive nature of ethanol except that 1960s technology is no longer in wide use today. I am willing to bet that McLaren like all car manufacturers are fully aware of ethanol. I would bet a king's ransom that the car's fuel system, lines, rails, gas tank, etc... are bullet proof to the affects of ethanol.

I would not run it because you would need a tune for it and the ecu would freak out. IF you could tune for it, then you would make massive power gains from the cooling effects, alone. I would guess 50 hp, at least, with more ignition advance. You would need bigger fuel injectors but probably not a bigger pump.

This.

|nsx| |mr2 spyder| |911 targa|

|McLaren is an environment where excellence is a way of life. -McRon|
Osiris_x11 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the McLaren Life forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome