McLaren, what I would like from you is.... - Page 2 - McLaren Life
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post #16 of 132 Old 02-21-2014, 12:38 PM
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Andy, in general I would agree with you, I just find it dangerous because it will start everyone expecting to get upgrades to whatever car.. The 650S, is a new version of the 12C. They should not make it possible to turn any 12c into a 650S, that makes no sense to me..

We're gonna end up going in circles again, here. It was a promise made to the first buyers. They don't have to make the promise again on future cars. They got what they needed out if the promise, but left the other side of the table hanging.

Anyway, this will go nowhere if we don't see eye to eye on the 650S being a de facto replacement.

I thought this thread was specifically to get away from the debate going on in the main thread. Can we not leave it that way?
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post #17 of 132 Old 02-21-2014, 12:40 PM
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look guys the 650S is a 25% different car in COMPONENT terms and more different in dynamic and systems terms......it is designed with it's younger brother to kill the 12C.

Take a look at the MPC WEBSITE

http://cars.mclaren.com/featured-art...-50-new-3.html

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post #18 of 132 Old 02-21-2014, 12:44 PM
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You are absolutely correct Fabian. It doesn't make sence at all. Do you know what cost would be involved to make a 650s out of a 12c?? I think you'll be surprised of the extra it would involve. As soon as that cost would be made public I think nobody'll take it and pay the extra for the 650 if they really want to.

As a wishlist for Mclaren I wish
- let the 650S model remain for 5 years
- that they take their responsibility if something doesn't work properly with a car ie Fix the god damned thing. Saying they can't find the problem is a no go

Current : ' 06 FGT TT Lamba, '14 Mclaren 650 spider, Gt2 oakley, '08 H2, '67 Camaro, '13 Aventador
Past : pff. too long
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post #19 of 132 Old 02-21-2014, 12:52 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quite a simple one from me but one thing I would like to see is P1 style gear shift paddles becoming the standard for all cars. A lot of people seem to opt for bigger paddles through MSO but it would be nice to see these become the norm across the range. Just my thoughts.
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post #20 of 132 Old 02-21-2014, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by 6th element View Post
I thought this thread was specifically to get away from the debate going on in the main thread. Can we not leave it that way?
Agreed 6th.

Guys can we please keep the 650S/12C arguments in the specific thread for that topic.

This thread was designed for people to put their thoughts in writing in the hope that McLaren will see and maybe address a few of them.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Nick
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post #21 of 132 Old 02-21-2014, 12:57 PM
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Perhaps the title of this thread needs adjustment. I thought this was supposed to relate directly to the 650S situation as it pertains to existing owners and the demise of the 12C. If we start putting in our wish lists for paddles and gas pedals, that seems off topic to me. Or do I have it wrong?
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post #22 of 132 Old 02-21-2014, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by roundincircles View Post
I think the distinction between early adoters and others needs further explanation.

ThOse who paid list price, typically early adopters (but also some others) have taken a substantially diferent hit than those who enjoyed discounts.......keep in mind here that currently huge discounts are supported by Mclaren incentivising the dealers on registering stock cars.

So the early adopters were treated differently than 'others' thus distinction arises in my judgement.

Some of us have to rob Banks and Post Offices to buy our Mclarens.
In the interests of common sense I think anybody who bought their car from new and still owns it should be treated the same, no matter what price they paid. If I managed to get a better deal than somebody else because a dealer needed a sale then good for me (or customers like Fabian) - it's not the same as buying secondhand.

Oh and by the way as someone who got the car in 2011 I did pay full list so there's no conflict of interest here - I just think owners from new are an obvious place to draw to draw the line. That doesn't mean I don't have empathy RIC but trying to figure out what every single owned paid for their car would be a right job compared to knowing who bought from new and still has it!
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post #23 of 132 Old 02-21-2014, 01:05 PM
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What he said:

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Originally Posted by andy c View Post
Any of the software upgrades that are available on the 650 to be transferable to the 12c,given that no hardware is involved,and if hardware is needed to be made available at a reasonable charge. Remember the promise,for the small cost it will help keep hard won owners onboard for the future....
and what he said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by roundincircles View Post
....

Those who paid list price, typically early adopters (but also some others) have taken a substantially diferent hit than those who enjoyed discounts.......keep in mind here that currently huge discounts are supported by Mclaren incentivising the dealers on registering stock cars.

So the early adopters were treated differently than 'others' thus distinction arises in my judgement.

Some of us have to rob Banks and Post Offices to buy our Mclarens.
I jumped in with both feet knowing this was going to cost me dear, but I absolutely believe buying from new should be recognised by manufacturers and damn straight it should mean I am a higher priority customer than a used buyer.

It's pretty sad that all I've learned about the 650s has come from here/Pistonheads/EVO. I absolutely get the necessity for embargoes, but c'mon - treat the people that basically invested in you a little better. Call from the dealer maybe? Pre-launch packs? An invite to Geneva after press day doesn't really cut it for me.

In summary

1) significant preferential deals/trade in for 'From New' 12C owners on 650s
2) software trickle down (where applicable)
3) hardware trickle down (where possible/practical)

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post #24 of 132 Old 02-21-2014, 01:09 PM
 
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OK - the definition of any early adopter is anyone who has bought a 12C - thats the point - the 12C is being replaced too early its its lifecyle for all owners by owner consensus on this forum - it matters not if you are chassis 1 or 3001 or you paid a premium or got a bargain ex demo - you were all early adopters by definition - you have the first rage production Mclaren - period! To those who think they deserve a discount because they paid full price ( learn how to negotiate ) and those who are still taking delivery of 12 C Spyder's as a discount deserve the same opportunity to benefit on a 650S deal if they wish or like me will hang on to their 12C because they still love it and the 650S is not to their personal taste - HAGW ALL
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post #25 of 132 Old 02-21-2014, 01:12 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by 6th element View Post
Perhaps the title of this thread needs adjustment. I thought this was supposed to relate directly to the 650S situation as it pertains to existing owners and the demise of the 12C. If we start putting in our wish lists for paddles and gas pedals, that seems off topic to me. Or do I have it wrong?
That is definitely something that can be covered in here 6th. Just hopefully without the back and forth debates.

The idea of this thread is for members to express their views relating to anything they have concerns with or even if they just have specific ideas for possible future development for McLaren and their vehicles. This could be in relation to the 650S/12C issue or something totally new and unrelated. Think of it as a feedback form but also as a suggestion box.
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post #26 of 132 Old 02-21-2014, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ftyl View Post
Andy, in general I would agree with you, I just find it dangerous because it will start everyone expecting to get upgrades to whatever car.. The 650S, is a new version of the 12C. They should not make it possible to turn any 12c into a 650S, that makes no sense to me..
Not visually Fab,but in the spirit of One of the biggest reasons many of us took the Brand to heart early on,if there are re-programming things that can be done it is bound to help the feel good factor when many feel we helped with feedback over the last couple of years to get to the 650,and to many it has come too soon to make the jump.Even though they know it is needed to protect the continuation of the brand
Plus if it was in the 5 year plan to do this,it should have been already factored in ...............No different to saying that your 5 year warranty has been reduced to 2'1/2 years so to speak ..........

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post #27 of 132 Old 02-21-2014, 01:26 PM
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The most effective and practical way to stabilize or even improve 12C residuals would be for McLaren to extend the warranty on all cars to a full 7 years, without charge. For those few who have already paid for a warranty extension, a refund or credit towards future service or purchase should be given. Doing so would garner significant praise in the press, and would show the market how confident McLaren is in the quality of the cars, which should have a good effect on prospective purchasers of the forthcoming entry-level model too. The big unknown on these cars is what life will be like for owners once the warranty has expired, and I think that is a significant factor contributing to the low resale value. Of course, this will not benefit former owners who have already sold (e.g., trading a 12C coupe in on a spider), but you have to draw the line somewhere I guess.
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post #28 of 132 Old 02-21-2014, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Supernova View Post
In the interests of common sense I think anybody who bought their car from new and still owns it should be treated the same, no matter what price they paid. If I managed to get a better deal than somebody else because a dealer needed a sale then good for me (or customers like Fabian) - it's not the same as buying secondhand.

Oh and by the way as someone who got the car in 2011 I did pay full list so there's no conflict of interest here - I just think owners from new are an obvious place to draw to draw the line. That doesn't mean I don't have empathy RIC but trying to figure out what every single owned paid for their car would be a right job compared to knowing who bought from new and still has it!

I have no problem with extending good will across the ownership landscape if a new car was purchased. The early adopters were promised many things that have not materialised or been quietly abandoned so I would cut more slack for them.

The issue remains........Mclaren killing the 12C and the impact that has on advocate owners whilst Mclaren maintain their financials at the expense of the early adoptors and other advocates.

roundincircles

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post #29 of 132 Old 02-21-2014, 03:47 PM
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........some contact!
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post #30 of 132 Old 02-21-2014, 04:12 PM
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I am an early buyer that chose a very basic spec on my car.. It was not about the money but rather my preference for a basic car ..the point is that the 650s may not appeal to all. I personally would not opt for this car from what little I know about it at this time..I don't like some of the design treatments..
So..for me personally, if McLaren were to offer a VERY inexpensive ( N/C if possible ) extended warranty for an additional 2 years , I think it would solve many issues.
One- demonstrates McLarens confidence in the manufacture of the early cars,...fact is most cars still have minimal mileage so extending the time should not be an issue...reality is someone could drive the doors off the car and be covered on an unlimited mileage 3 year campaign..So why not step up and cover the early cars for an additional 2 years..on low mileage cars
Two-this would be attractive to those interested in buying pre-owned and make the cars more valuable..If qtys are limited (not discontinued) and coverages were extended , I think the resale market could stabilize and those that want an even less expensive vehicle could wait for the baby mac..
Three- If 650s is 40-50K more expensive..their would be room for the 3 iterations...Every owner is not a track enthusiast ( seeking extra 25HP) and like Porsche their are numerous power alternatives with similar body configuration..It works.
So. imho, if McLaren made a gesture by standing behind the MP4-12c with extended warranty, slowed but not discontinued production, have price spread of $40-50K between MP4-12c and 650s ..I for one would not feel jilted..I like my car, the swiped doors and the fixes are behind her for now...
A strategy for retail is critical going forward but that is necessary whether McLaren has 2,3 or 4 models in the marketplace...It is in their best interest to be respectful of resale values if they want owners to re-enter the market for future models..Noone likes taking a beating..respectable depreciation is to be expected but it is a ltd production car and themarketing strategy should support this...I
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