P14 Wishlist - Page 3 - McLaren Life
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post #31 of 113 Old 07-23-2015, 11:24 AM
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The engine. It's the heart and soul of any car. It is also McLarens weak link relative to the competition.

Very hard for McLaren to finance a clean sheet design. But if they don't, they'll always be just that little bit behind. No matter how good the Monocell is.

There are now plenty of examples of turbo + supercharged small capacity engines.

I thought the one in the Jaguar C-X75 revving to 11,000 rpm sounded very good.

Volvo have something similar in the pipeline.

Ditch the batteries on the performance variant for a flybrid system.

Win the Formula 1 WDC + WCC in order to finance the above.
Stop hibernating all the time benjiwengy...http://www.ukipme.com/engineoftheyear/results.php?id=22
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post #32 of 113 Old 07-23-2015, 12:03 PM
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It's about time the brand "won" something 😉
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post #33 of 113 Old 07-23-2015, 02:09 PM
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It's about time the brand "won" something 😉
"WON" it 2 years in a row Vin

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post #34 of 113 Old 07-23-2015, 05:03 PM
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"WON" it 2 years in a row Vin
3 years in a row Andy... ; )

McLAREN M838T ENGINE SECURES THIRD SUCCESSIVE TITLE AT INTERNATIONAL ENGINE OF THE YEAR AWARDS
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post #35 of 113 Old 07-23-2015, 05:17 PM
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3 years in a row Andy... ; )

McLAREN M838T ENGINE SECURES THIRD SUCCESSIVE TITLE AT INTERNATIONAL ENGINE OF THE YEAR AWARDS
But it's not a McLaren engine is it? McLaren uses it but they didn't design or build it, correct? I'm curious, someone that knows, please set me straight.
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post #36 of 113 Old 07-23-2015, 06:34 PM
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But it's not a McLaren engine is it? McLaren uses it but they didn't design or build it, correct? I'm curious, someone that knows, please set me straight.
They had massive input into it's not like they bought a road going engine off the shelf ,then they chose Ricardo to develop it to their requirements,i would guess they had more involvement in this than they did for the BMW V12 that nobody complains about

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post #37 of 113 Old 07-23-2015, 06:35 PM
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3 years in a row Andy... ; )

McLAREN M838T ENGINE SECURES THIRD SUCCESSIVE TITLE AT INTERNATIONAL ENGINE OF THE YEAR AWARDS
Oops ,that's not like me ...............

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post #38 of 113 Old 07-23-2015, 06:50 PM
 
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But it's not a McLaren engine is it? McLaren uses it but they didn't design or build it, correct? I'm curious, someone that knows, please set me straight.
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Originally Posted by andy c View Post
They had massive input into it's not like they bought a road going engine off the shelf ,then they chose Ricardo to develop it to their requirements,i would guess they had more involvement in this than they did for the BMW V12 that nobody complains about
I thought it was based upon the Nissan R390 engine. According to the internet though it looks like there have been a lot of hands on it over the decades, and it started out, to the extent something like this has a true beginning, as a race motor. It doesn't look like it's ever had a road application.

At the end of the day, Mclaren bought the rights to use it, and has heavily developed it into something radically different, through their sub Ricardo or whomever, so IMO it's their engine for all intents and purposes.
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post #39 of 113 Old 07-23-2015, 07:05 PM
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They had massive input into it's not like they bought a road going engine off the shelf ,then they chose Ricardo to develop it to their requirements,i would guess they had more involvement in this than they did for the BMW V12 that nobody complains about
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I thought it was based upon the Nissan R390 engine. According to the internet though it looks like there have been a lot of hands on it over the decades, and it started out, to the extent something like this has a true beginning, as a race motor. It doesn't look like it's ever had a road application.

At the end of the day, Mclaren bought the rights to use it, and has heavily developed it into something radically different, through their sub Ricardo or whomever, so IMO it's their engine for all intents and purposes.
Thanks gents.
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post #40 of 113 Old 07-23-2015, 07:07 PM
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Car & Driver reported the following about the original M838T engine in the 12C:

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Originally Posted by Car & Driver
Early in this project, McLaren engineering director Neil Hannemann nominated an engine for the MP4-12C that was originally developed in Nissan’s racing department. Nissan and Infiniti had raced this spinoff from the Infiniti Q45 V-8 at Le Mans (1997 and 1999) and in two Indy Racing League series (1997–2005). Other than a 93-mm (3.66 inches) bore dimension, little of Nissan’s VRH engine exists in today’s M838T V-8. Developed in collaboration with Ricardo, this is a compact 90-degree twin-turbo V-8 with aluminum construction, Nikasil bore surfaces, dual overhead cams, and variable intake- and exhaust-valve timing. The modest 3.8-liter displacement is McLaren’s nod to the environment.
In addition to that engine being fairly bespoke from the original design, McLaren has now made several variants of that engine to use in the P1, 650S, 675LT, 570S, P1 GTR and their various Sprint and GT3 cars. So regardless of its origin the M838T is by now a pretty original McLaren design based on the myriad of changes they've made to it over time to accommodate different needs in different cars. Look at the awesome 675LT reviews. I don't think any journalist driving those cars was thinking McLaren needed to go back to the drawing board on its engine

It's pretty clear that if McLaren thought they needed a clean-sheet design to make a better engine than what they have now they certainly have the skill to do so as proven by the masterful changes they've made to the M838T over the years which continues to offer best-in-class performance and win engine of the year in its class handily beating Ferrari and Porsche engines.

Here's a link to the original article: Car & Driver: 2012 McLaren MP4-12C
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post #41 of 113 Old 07-23-2015, 09:17 PM
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I would guess that McLaren will introduce a "next generation" engine at some point, for all sorts of reasons. P14 seems like good place to start, since it's effectively their first "next generation" car.

One option would be to include lots of leading edge technology (direct injection etc).

Another option would be more or less the same design but much greater use of exotic materials. Though, unless Ricardo are already prepared for all that I wouldn't particular expect them to take that route.

However, for the type of company McLaren are I don't think they would be satisfied with "me too" upgrades to the engine - ie features that are available from competitors, no matter how bleeding edge. I can certainly understand them wanting to start with a fairly conventional engine, to reduce costs and risks for the first generation. However, they have now "earned" the right to take bigger risks, I would say - both for R&D and with customer expectations.

Re-using previous R&D is certainly not a bad thing and to my mind taking the P1 engine and turning it into a more general engine platform would make a lot of sense. If you think of it as a conventional engine with a super-powerful starter motor and super-powerful battery then the complexity is not so much in the extra hardware (though there is some) but the integration, electrical systems, control systems and testing/validation. If you conceptually slim down the P1's electric motor a bit and the battery a lot then you could have the electric motor improve low-end torque/power in general and also provide "torque fill" but not provide any extra top-end power (or IPAS).

For that you would probably need a battery capable of more powerful electric loads but not necessarily a larger one. So you would have some extra weight but probably not too much. It also wouldn't really be a hybrid.

For the P15 they could then take that and scale it back up to something close to the P1.
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post #42 of 113 Old 07-23-2015, 10:17 PM
 
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Yeah is that something that would be desired? Is a new engine for the sake of it really appealing? I guess the same thing could get old, but Ferrari have been plopping the same V12 in their cars for over a decade now (and arguably longer than that) and I don't think anyone has complained.

I guess they could offer something bigger... I am somehow still surprised when I read that it's just 3.8L. It seems like McLaren could make as much horsepower as they want from the 3.8L setup, without a tremendous amount of lag. The F1 Merc 1.6L pushes over 900 horsepower. Maybe developing something smaller could further help with weight and packaging but that doesn't sound very sexy.
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post #43 of 113 Old 07-23-2015, 10:25 PM
 
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Stop hibernating all the time benjiwengy...http://www.ukipme.com/engineoftheyear/results.php?id=22
Well aware it won "engine of the year award". Although winning any X Of The Year Award tends to be a dubious accolade in my experience.

Given their budget constraints, McLaren have made a little go a long way. Hats off.

However, if they could have gone normally aspirated they surely would have. But there's no way they could have built a N/A to compete with the bhp per litre outputs of Porsche and Ferrari. Way too expensive.

Much easier to turbo-charge.

The normally aspirated Ferrari V8s, V12s, and Porsche flat 6s are engineering jewelry.

The V8 in the 918 makes it worth the selling price alone. Best engine ever put in a road legal car. Weighs 65kgs less than the M838T.
Shame it's been burdened by all that battery nonsense.

They'll all be turbo'd within a few years so we'll get a level playing field.

If Ricardo can build a engine on par with it's better funded rivals, then fair play.

The 488s V8 is already reported to be better though.
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post #44 of 113 Old 07-24-2015, 08:07 AM
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The 488s V8 is already reported to be better though.
Very much in agreement with a lot of what you say here benjiwengy. On the other hand, the 650S successor's engine is rumoured to put the 488 engine in a position of embarrassing shame, so I've been told.
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post #45 of 113 Old 07-24-2015, 08:48 AM
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Very much in agreement with a lot of what you say here benjiwengy. On the other hand, the 650S successor's engine is rumoured to put the 488 engine in a position of embarrassing shame, so I've been told.
Funny,that's what I've heard too

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