600LT Track Only Wheel Suggestions - Page 3 - McLaren Life
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post #31 of 48 Old 03-21-2019, 04:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jlmac570s View Post
What a great thread. Question: If I go with 19x9s in front and 19x11s all around, what are the tire sizes I should be using so the sensors don't throw a fit? Also what should be offsets and such to make sure things clear or is that dependent on wheel shape or style?
The discussion of offsets and other specifics is getting into the details of wheel design and engineering and best handled in one-on-one discussions with the firm you choose as there can be many variables at play. PM me if you would like to get into some of these details as I am happy to have that discussion with you or anyone else.

Kurt

Last edited by Kfehling; 03-21-2019 at 04:57 AM.
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post #32 of 48 Old 03-21-2019, 05:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Kfehling View Post
The discussion of offsets and other specifics is getting into the details of wheel design and engineering and best handled in one-on-one discussions with the firm you choose as there can be many variables at play. PM me if you would like to get into some of these details as I am happy to have that discussion with you or anyone else.

Kurt
Can you at least share the tire sizes? I'm too lazy to go out into my garage and take the covers off the car to see if the rear has an overall diameter greater than the fronts. I assume it might since the rears are 20s while fronts are 19s and I assume they'll want the same tire sidewall size.
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post #33 of 48 Old 03-21-2019, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Kfehling View Post
have scanned my 570S and while the brakes and suspension are from the 720 on the 600LT, most of the limits for the wheels remain the same.
Only the lighter double wishbones are from the 720 I believe, and they wouldn’t intrude in to wheel space at all. The suspension itself is the same coilover system in the 570, with stiffer and 8mm lower springs. McLaren do not say anything about the shocks so presumably they are the same.

Quote:
Can you at least share the tire sizes? I'm too lazy to go out into my garage and take the covers off the car to see if the rear has an overall diameter greater than the fronts. I assume it might since the rears are 20s while fronts are 19s and I assume they'll want the same tire sidewall size.
As for the question on front-to-rear sizes, the rear has a 27.9” rolling diameter and the front a 25.2” diameter. They use the same OEM tire sizes as the 570S - 225/35R19 and 285/35R20. This is actually kind of odd since the wheel itself is 19x8 on the front (same as 570) and 20x11 on the rear (1” wider than 570!) That begs the question - why did they put a wider wheel on the back, but not a wider tire?? Even more odd, on Pirelli’s website none of their 285 width Trofeo’s tires are certified for 11” rims - they all say “9.5-10.0-10.5”. Did McLaren typo their spec sheet on wheel width? Is it actually a 10”?

Thanks!

Z.
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post #34 of 48 Old 03-21-2019, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by zerokewl View Post
As for the question on front-to-rear sizes, the rear has a 27.9” rolling diameter and the front a 25.2” diameter. They use the same OEM tire sizes as the 570S - 225/35R19 and 285/35R20. This is actually kind of odd since the wheel itself is 19x8 on the front (same as 570) and 20x11 on the rear (1” wider than 570!) That begs the question - why did they put a wider wheel on the back, but not a wider tire?? Even more odd, on Pirelli’s website none of their 285 width Trofeo’s tires are certified for 11” rims - they all say “9.5-10.0-10.5”. Did McLaren typo their spec sheet on wheel width? Is it actually a 10”?
.

A note on "approved rim widths"...don't put too much credence in that. These are standardized between all tiremakers for each marked size (go to TireRack.com and have a compare a couple) according to specs administered by the Tire and Rim Association. Actual tire dimensions are not standardized, due to variations in profile and such. Except...section width of a specific tire on the "measured rim" almost always is. Again, for fitment reasons (section is typically the interference point, though not always). Confused yet?


As an example, have a look at the N0 Porsche spec version of the 305/30-20 Michelin PS4S versus the "regular" version. .4" wider tread width, with same OD, section, and rim specs. Max in rim spec is 11.5 but Porsche puts that tire on the rear of a GT3 with 12" wide rims.
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post #35 of 48 Old 03-21-2019, 05:17 PM
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A note on "approved rim widths"...don't put too much credence in that. These are standardized between all tiremakers for each marked size (go to TireRack.com and have a compare a couple) according to specs administered by the Tire and Rim Association. Actual tire dimensions are not standardized, due to variations in profile and such. Except...section width of a specific tire on the "measured rim" almost always is. Again, for fitment reasons (section is typically the interference point, though not always). Confused yet?


As an example, have a look at the N0 Porsche spec version of the 305/30-20 Michelin PS4S versus the "regular" version. .4" wider tread width, with same OD, section, and rim specs. Max in rim spec is 11.5 but Porsche puts that tire on the rear of a GT3 with 12" wide rims.
I agree on the variations... My 305/30R20 is approved down to 10" for Toyo, but not for Pirelli (their minimum is 10.5"). Typically I don't care too much if it's half an inch out, but on a car doing 200MPH+ I feel a little more cautious!

Maybe they use the wider wheels to alter the track width, though I just checked, and surprisingly the 570S has a rear track of 1618mm and the 600LT is 1591mm?? On the front the 600LT is slightly wider (1680mm vs 1673mm - 7mm wider). This is measured "contact patch centre", so the extra 25.4mm on the wheel might actually push the rear track out a bit more (edge to edge). The marketing material claims "10mm wider track" but I'm not sure why their track width specs don't seem to correlate.

Thanks!

Z.
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post #36 of 48 Old 03-21-2019, 07:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Kfehling View Post
Resistance is futile; you will be assimilated! We hope to have a set of wheels on your car soon!

Again, all good points and as you state, it comes down to what each person wants to do. As for 245s up front, my set of F14s on my 579 have 235s on them and there is just a slight bit of rubbing at full left lock but we have addressed this for all subsequent sets. If you want to try 245s, we can look into it for you. We can also make a 3D printed profile to test fitment. Feel free to contact me at kurt @Finspeed.com and we can discuss more details.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

Kurt
Yes, I forgot to mention. This 235/35/19 305/30/20 set I'm referring to, the 235 slightly rubs at full lock in reverse and I wouldn't say the offset is that aggressive. The fitment up front seems to be tighter than we thought with that 600lt specific fender liner.....

I'm seeing 245/30/20's on a few 600's via pics but haven't heard if they rub.
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post #37 of 48 Old 03-21-2019, 08:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by zerokewl View Post
and surprisingly the 570S has a rear track of 1618mm and the 600LT is 1591mm?? On the front the 600LT is slightly wider (1680mm vs 1673mm - 7mm wider). This is measured "contact patch centre", so the extra 25.4mm on the wheel might actually push the rear track out a bit more (edge to edge). The marketing material claims "10mm wider track" but I'm not sure why their track width specs don't seem to correlate.
Is the 10mm wider track at the front or rear in marketing materials. I know they did talk about a wider front track.

Regarding the rear being narrower - possibly aero related???

I am generally skeptical about mods (e.g., shoving bigger wheels/tires) on aero-focused track cars from manufacturers who seem to know what they are doing and who can fine tune aero impact of changes in way we cannot. I will continue to watch this thread, but I am leaning toward simply getting a second set at OEM dimensions.

(This is also the reason I was asking about the roll bar. If understeer is dialed in for safety my preference would be to attack it from the suspension not the rubber, if possible.)
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post #38 of 48 Old 03-22-2019, 12:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jlmac570s View Post
Can you at least share the tire sizes? I'm too lazy to go out into my garage and take the covers off the car to see if the rear has an overall diameter greater than the fronts. I assume it might since the rears are 20s while fronts are 19s and I assume they'll want the same tire sidewall size.
Sure: If you wanted to do 19x9s and 19x11s as in your previous post, the Hoosier size would be 235/25-19 and 315/35-19. I will have to do some calculations with other brands to see what will maintain the proper diameter/height. I will look into that and post soon.

Kurt

Last edited by Kfehling; 03-23-2019 at 05:04 PM.
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post #39 of 48 Old 03-22-2019, 12:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ILLCOMM View Post
Is the 10mm wider track at the front or rear in marketing materials. I know they did talk about a wider front track.

Regarding the rear being narrower - possibly aero related???

I am generally skeptical about mods (e.g., shoving bigger wheels/tires) on aero-focused track cars from manufacturers who seem to know what they are doing and who can fine tune aero impact of changes in way we cannot. I will continue to watch this thread, but I am leaning toward simply getting a second set at OEM dimensions.

(This is also the reason I was asking about the roll bar. If understeer is dialed in for safety my preference would be to attack it from the suspension not the rubber, if possible.)
If I were you, and I kind of am because, I went 1 inch wider up front and back for my track set but only half an inch wider up front for and stock width in the rear for my street set. For track use, I want to have a bit more width as I am interested in cornering speed vs top speed. I love a well balanced car and the speed I can carry through a corner rather than the straight line stuff. Just my personal opinion and I certainly respect other's choice to suit their goals.

Kurt

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post #40 of 48 Old 03-23-2019, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ILLCOMM View Post
Is the 10mm wider track at the front or rear in marketing materials. I know they did talk about a wider front track.

Regarding the rear being narrower - possibly aero related???

I am generally skeptical about mods (e.g., shoving bigger wheels/tires) on aero-focused track cars from manufacturers who seem to know what they are doing and who can fine tune aero impact of changes in way we cannot. I will continue to watch this thread, but I am leaning toward simply getting a second set at OEM dimensions.

(This is also the reason I was asking about the roll bar. If understeer is dialed in for safety my preference would be to attack it from the suspension not the rubber, if possible.)
I hear the whole "the manufacturer knows better" argument a lot, but I strongly disagree with that perspective. The manufacturer has to make a HUGE amount of compromise when selling a car to the public. If it's their halo TRACK ONLY car, I'd mostly agree - so a Senna GTR or FXX, I'd agree (though I think they hold things back there too) - but any road going car, especially if not their top level street car, is going to have an insane amount of compromise built-in, including, but not limited to:

- Regulations
- Streetability
- Climate
- Reliability
- Warrantee concerns
- Competition with it's own line up
- Competition with future cars

With regulations and streetability, everything from how loud it is & emissions to speed bump clearance & NVH has to be taken in to account. So the optimum driving experience might be stiffer springs, harder engine mounts, or lower ride height - but they are limited by regulations and drivability, and have to cater to the majority. Other concerns like climate, reliability and warranty are also things I might choose to forfeit for improved performance.

Lastly, competition with themselves is a HUGE part.. The 600LT cannot be made to be better than the 720S, the 720S cannot be made to be better than the Senna. It just isn't good business. Also, the 570S was obviously compromised so they could sell you a 600LT later. All the improvements made in the 600LT prove that aftermarket upgrades can improve things. Porsche, for example, are notorious for this - I think one time Top Gear put up a chart comparing Boxster, Cayman and 911 - and the numbers were literally progressive!

I'm not saying all mods help - done stupidly mods can and will affect a car negatively - but well thought out mods will improve the car for your specific use case.

Thanks!

Z.
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post #41 of 48 Old 04-01-2019, 08:55 PM
 
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Can someone tell me what the length of the OEM wheel lugs is? The size should be an m14 x 1.5. Thx
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post #42 of 48 Old 06-11-2019, 01:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
I can't quite yet speak from experience about track applications but I can say that the team at Finspeed is very professional. Looking forward to the arrival of my set as I have just received my new 600LT. Take a look on their site, it's really easy to navigate and quite informative as well. Here's my order to give you an idea of the services they're capable of providing:
Any updates on how this set up is working? Also pics would be great 😁

Thx
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post #43 of 48 Old 06-11-2019, 05:38 PM Thread Starter
 
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Any updates on how this set up is working? Also pics would be great 😁

Thx
I picked up the Finspeed F14 wheels for dedicated track duty. Mounted the OEM Trafeo Rs to them. The wheels look stunning and are really light.

Definitely Tore up the outside edge of the tire at the first track day (no fault of the wheels). Had McLaren of Denver install camber kit to get me to -3 degrees front and -2 degrees rear. Should feel like a different car on the track. Next track day is June 29.
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post #44 of 48 Old 06-11-2019, 11:13 PM
 
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I picked up the Finspeed F14 wheels for dedicated track duty. Mounted the OEM Trafeo Rs to them. The wheels look stunning and are really light.

Definitely Tore up the outside edge of the tire at the first track day (no fault of the wheels). Had McLaren of Denver install camber kit to get me to -3 degrees front and -2 degrees rear. Should feel like a different car on the track. Next track day is June 29.
Thanks for the update and pictures. Wheels look great! I think I meant you at the dealer. I was dropping off my Tarocco orange 600. I’m interested to see how you like that camber kit. I may have to add that to my list. If my schedule holds, I will see you at HPR on the 29th. Thx again for the info.
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post #45 of 48 Old 06-11-2019, 11:46 PM
 
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I went with the BBS CI-R wheels with PSC2 tires for my 570 on the track. I appreciate the beauty of the Finspeed wheels, but these are track wheels that will get hammered between mounting and un mounting, loading on a tire rack etc... they are already scuffed. I feel better about abusing a set of $2600 wheels than more expensive.
https://www.tirerack.com/wheels/Whee...Lip&tab=wheels

And they look really good on the car.
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