600LT Track Only Wheel Suggestions - Page 2 - McLaren Life
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post #16 of 48 Old 03-19-2019, 03:47 AM
 
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FSTCLYZ,

You bring up many good points and I will try to address a few of them here. First, at Finspeed, each set is made to order based upon what the customer wants and their intended purpose. Some companies will premachine a wheel, set it on the shelf, and then when they receive an order, they do a final "cut" to make it fit the application; be it a GTR, GT3, Corvette or whatever. We don't do that. Every set we make is made to order. Back to your thoughts: Obviously, there are constraints that limit what can be done given the location of suspension hardware, suspension mounts, brake hardware, etc. We actually 3D scan those applications where the owners want to get super aggressive or creative. In fact, we just finished a scan of a Senna so will know exactly the limits of what can be done with respect to wheels. We have scanned my 570S and while the brakes and suspension are from the 720 on the 600LT, most of the limits for the wheels remain the same. For my track set up, we went with 19x9s in front and 19x11s in the rear as I want more tire options; the 19s in the rear allow that. So, I went 1 inch wider both front and back with no issue. We can offer some suggestions if you want to go wider or different off-sets. Second, for Geoff2010's setup, he wanted to maintain the option of using stock Trofeo Rs so he will be getting 19x8.5 fronts and 20x11s in the rear. The 8.5 inch width up front will allow Trofeo Rs plus other tires that make a 235 section to help with some of the understeer. He did not have the desire to go wider in the rear. I will confess that I am not sure a wider tire is really necessary in the rear having driven the 600LT; it seemed to hook up well and bigger/wider is also heavier (all things considered). I would not discourage you from going wider if you want to though as I applaud being aggressive! Having said that, you are correct in that you can go wider in the rear. How much more? We would have to do some modeling work to be sure but can figure that out if you or the rest of the forum are interested.

You are also correct in that some tires of the same size have different heights/diameters so again, that goes into our modeling to make sure there are no computer issues. It all comes back to Finspeed wheels being bespoke and understanding how the customer will be using them and knowing the other factors that come into affect. Not only will we help assist with the proper wheel for you, but we will also recommend the proper tire(s) to make sure everything works in harmony.

I hope this helps.

Kurt

PS: I am not quite sure what you meant in your penultimate paragraph with the discussion of the 235 section and then following that with "However, both PUR and Finspeed still are still using 11s in the rear." Could you please restate and I will respond accordingly.

Thanks!

Last edited by Kfehling; 03-19-2019 at 03:51 AM.
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post #17 of 48 Old 03-19-2019, 04:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kfehling View Post

I will confess that I am not sure a wider tire is really necessary in the rear having driven the 600LT; it seemed to hook up well and bigger/wider is also heavier (all things considered).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kfehling View Post

to help with some of the understeer.
This cuts at my core question! First, assuming McLaren knows what they are doing are we so sure more rubber (heavier, etc) is better? Do we know the car pushes? Haven't watched a single review where someone talks about understeer, unlike my 997 GT car which plows through turns and that always came up in reviews!

Frankly, I am most interested in more tire options, specifically the Sport Cup 2. I don't think those tires fit on OEM. Is there an application that would work?

I have run Trofeo Rs on my GT2 and they are *fast* but they wore really, really quickly. I hear SC2s are a bit more durable. Frankly, the wear was so fast on the Trofeo's it scares my wallet. Of course the 600LT is lighter and more balanced so maybe less of an issue?

Last edited by ILLCOMM; 03-19-2019 at 04:14 AM.
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post #18 of 48 Old 03-19-2019, 04:16 AM
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I have Forgeline one piece wheels with sensors and center caps with Trofeo R tires (245/305) set up. You can contact Forgeline and confirm if these will fit the 600 LT. I am selling them for $5k and run $8k with Trofeo R tires new. Rear tires have less than 400 regular driving miles max on them. Front are easily 70% new. These are off my 570 but since different wheel offset and rim width they may be a perfect fit for the 600LT. I purchased a 720 and sold my 570 with stock wheels so that is why I am selling them (The rear wheels do not fit on the 720).
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post #19 of 48 Old 03-19-2019, 04:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLCOMM View Post
This cuts at my core question! First, assuming McLaren knows what they are doing are we so sure more rubber (heavier, etc) is better? Do we know the car pushes? Haven't watched a single review where someone talks about understeer, unlike my 997 GT car which plows through turns and that always came up in reviews!

Frankly, I am most interested in more tire options, specifically the Sport Cup 2. I don't think those tires fit on OEM. Is there an application that would work?

I have run Trofeo Rs on my GT2 and they are *fast* but they wore really, really quickly. I hear SC2s are a bit more durable. Frankly, the wear was so fast on the Trofeo's it scares my wallet. Of course the 600LT is lighter and more balanced so maybe less of an issue?
It does not push as much as some (e.g., my Z06; talk about a pig in stock setup!). But more front tire will definitely help with turn in. My 570 definitely has (had) some understeer on the track so the wider fronts on mine helped a lot.

As for other tire fitments, yes, that is the point of why at Finspeed, we want to understand what and how you will be using the car and what tire options you want. Case in point, my desire to use Hoosiers so 19s all around (note: Hoosier now makes 20s!). We can make wheels to allow use of the Michelin Cup 2s as well as others. We should talk to see specifically what you want and then design something to suit your needs. As for weight, depending on what setup you want, our wheels will be lighter than stock in the same fitment. On my 570, the fronts were an inch wider and were still the same weight as stock and that is without any of our lightweight options so there is more to be had there. The rears were a few pounds lighter as well but some of that is due to going with 19s as opposed to 20s. Still, we will beat stock weights on direct comparison so no worries there. Also, not all weight is equal as it matters more where that weight is located: I am talking about moment of inertia; something we really focus on.

PM your number and I will call you if you want to discuss further.

Kurt
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post #20 of 48 Old 03-19-2019, 05:02 AM
 
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PM Sent.
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post #21 of 48 Old 03-19-2019, 02:15 PM
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Piling on the Finspeed love wagon here.


I met the owner, Daniel Finke, at COTA over the weekend. Took a tour of the manufacturing facility and met the guys yesterday. Then ordered wheels in custom sizes for my 720S that will be running in the One Lap of America this year (we finished 2nd Overall last year in my old 570S).



I was super-impressed with their product and process. You will not find better informed engineers, or better engineered products for the enthusiast market, not to mention professional motorsports. These are essentially BBS custom forged pro motorsports level wheels that typically run $10-12K a set, being engineered for your application at about half that price.


As for whether McLaren knows better what they are doing with wheel sizing, have a look at what they put on the 570 GT4 race cars. Yep, wider wheels with a bigger increase in the front. For production road cars, understeer is always built-in for safety reasons...typically through wheel/tire sizing and alignment (limited camber).


For my 570S, a simple upgrade to 12C wheel/tire sizes (yes, they bolt right on and fit) and an addition of 1 degree of camber through shims made the car significantly quicker and less pushy. You do have to be careful about relative tire OD's, or the ESC and ABS will freak out and throw codes if you stray too far away from the OE stagger. The limit is 6% (this straight from Bosch engineers).
sainthoo and Kfehling like this.

Last edited by AWH; 03-19-2019 at 02:19 PM.
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post #22 of 48 Old 03-19-2019, 04:00 PM
 
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I bought a set of BBS CI-R wheels for my 570GT $2685 for wheels. Add whatever tires you like. Made in Germany
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post #23 of 48 Old 03-19-2019, 04:14 PM
 
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I put 235/35/19 and 285/35/20 Michelin sport cup2's on my 570 for the track. Very noticeable improvement in turn-in response. The car felt more planted. I have driven on Hoosier R7, Hankook V214's, Bridegestone RE71R, as well as Pirelli, Michelin, and Dunlop Slicks for 30 years. The rear of the car is well planted with the 285 tire, but the front needs more tire and bite. I believe for 1Lap the 570 was fitted with 255/ front and a 295 rear both with a et47 offset. Not sure you want to go THAT crazy.
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post #24 of 48 Old 03-19-2019, 04:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kfehling View Post
FSTCLYZ,

You bring up many good points and I will try to address a few of them here. First, at Finspeed, each set is made to order based upon what the customer wants and their intended purpose. Some companies will premachine a wheel, set it on the shelf, and then when they receive an order, they do a final "cut" to make it fit the application; be it a GTR, GT3, Corvette or whatever. We don't do that. Every set we make is made to order. Back to your thoughts: Obviously, there are constraints that limit what can be done given the location of suspension hardware, suspension mounts, brake hardware, etc. We actually 3D scan those applications where the owners want to get super aggressive or creative. In fact, we just finished a scan of a Senna so will know exactly the limits of what can be done with respect to wheels. We have scanned my 570S and while the brakes and suspension are from the 720 on the 600LT, most of the limits for the wheels remain the same. For my track set up, we went with 19x9s in front and 19x11s in the rear as I want more tire options; the 19s in the rear allow that. So, I went 1 inch wider both front and back with no issue. We can offer some suggestions if you want to go wider or different off-sets. Second, for Geoff2010's setup, he wanted to maintain the option of using stock Trofeo Rs so he will be getting 19x8.5 fronts and 20x11s in the rear. The 8.5 inch width up front will allow Trofeo Rs plus other tires that make a 235 section to help with some of the understeer. He did not have the desire to go wider in the rear. I will confess that I am not sure a wider tire is really necessary in the rear having driven the 600LT; it seemed to hook up well and bigger/wider is also heavier (all things considered). I would not discourage you from going wider if you want to though as I applaud being aggressive! Having said that, you are correct in that you can go wider in the rear. How much more? We would have to do some modeling work to be sure but can figure that out if you or the rest of the forum are interested.

You are also correct in that some tires of the same size have different heights/diameters so again, that goes into our modeling to make sure there are no computer issues. It all comes back to Finspeed wheels being bespoke and understanding how the customer will be using them and knowing the other factors that come into affect. Not only will we help assist with the proper wheel for you, but we will also recommend the proper tire(s) to make sure everything works in harmony.

I hope this helps.

Kurt

PS: I am not quite sure what you meant in your penultimate paragraph with the discussion of the 235 section and then following that with "However, both PUR and Finspeed still are still using 11s in the rear." Could you please restate and I will respond accordingly.

Thanks!
Thanks for the detailed reply. You guys have a good reputation and have succeeded in a very competitive market. Your about the only company I haven't bought wheels from but that's just because I haven't bought them in awhile. I'm sure I'll own a set of yours at some point. : )

I won't go into details as to why I'm going the route I am but I will at least say this set I'm doing with PSC2's is for the street, while my OEM setup (Trofeos) will be for more track use. The whole debate on bigger tires are better I stay out of until I have conclusive personal evidence plus there's too many variables based on different drivers wants and needs.

The other WEIRD thing about this 600lt is why didn't MAC put more offset on the rear wheel.. It's just strange looking to have the front offset more aggressive than the rear. I bet most of us with aftermarket wheels will be correcting this. The downside to this is a lot of road wear on those little carbon outer blades (a place for more clearbra).

The question on if 245's will fit seems to be up for debate still??
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post #25 of 48 Old 03-19-2019, 04:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by fstclyz View Post
Thanks for the detailed reply. You guys have a good reputation and have succeeded in a very competitive market. Your about the only company I haven't bought wheels from but that's just because I haven't bought them in awhile. I'm sure I'll own a set of yours at some point. : )

I won't go into details as to why I'm going the route I am but I will at least say this set I'm doing with PSC2's is for the street, while my OEM setup (Trofeos) will be for more track use. The whole debate on bigger tires are better I stay out of until I have conclusive personal evidence plus there's too many variables based on different drivers wants and needs.

The other WEIRD thing about this 600lt is why didn't MAC put more offset on the rear wheel.. It's just strange looking to have the front offset more aggressive than the rear. I bet most of us with aftermarket wheels will be correcting this. The downside to this is a lot of road wear on those little carbon outer blades (a place for more clearbra).

The question on if 245's will fit seems to be up for debate still??
Resistance is futile; you will be assimilated! We hope to have a set of wheels on your car soon!

Again, all good points and as you state, it comes down to what each person wants to do. As for 245s up front, my set of F14s on my 579 have 235s on them and there is just a slight bit of rubbing at full left lock but we have addressed this for all subsequent sets. If you want to try 245s, we can look into it for you. We can also make a 3D printed profile to test fitment. Feel free to contact me at kurt @Finspeed.com and we can discuss more details.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

Kurt
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post #26 of 48 Old 03-19-2019, 05:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AWH View Post
As for whether McLaren knows better what they are doing with wheel sizing, have a look at what they put on the 570 GT4 race cars. Yep, wider wheels with a bigger increase in the front. For production road cars, understeer is always built-in for safety reasons...typically through wheel/tire sizing and alignment (limited camber).
As it relates to dialing out understeer: I know the 600LT suspension is conventional, are the roll bars adjustable?
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post #27 of 48 Old 03-19-2019, 06:15 PM
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Forgeline wheels update:

I spoke to Derek at Forgeline. Derek is confirming that my aftermarket offset wheels will fit the 600 LT. He is going to check and all me back. He is not sure if they have sold a set for a 600LT yet or not.


Offsets currently
8.5 40 19"
11 44 20"

Tires front 245 Trofeo R
Tires rear 305 Trofeo R and can go to 325.
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post #28 of 48 Old 03-19-2019, 06:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ILLCOMM View Post
As it relates to dialing out understeer: I know the 600LT suspension is conventional, are the roll bars adjustable?
I could be wrong but I do not believe the factory sway bars are adjustable. As AWH mentioned, I think just a bit of negative camber will do wonders for the handling.

Kurt
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post #29 of 48 Old 03-20-2019, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLCOMM View Post
As it relates to dialing out understeer: I know the 600LT suspension is conventional, are the roll bars adjustable?

I have seen nothing that says they are, but I'm not an LT owner so can't say for sure. But the bars for the GT4 race cars are adjustable and bolt right on. Can be purchased through any McLaren motorsports dealership (Houston and Scottsdale, for sure).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtracer37 View Post
I believe for 1Lap the 570 was fitted with 255/ front and a 295 rear both with a et47 offset. Not sure you want to go THAT crazy.

Hey now, who you calling crazy???


Indeed, I ran 255/30-19 on the front but the rears were 305/30-20. Those 255's don't really like being on 8.5" rims, though. They are pinched and you'll edge-cord them before wearing out the full tread. I had them on 10's on my 12C and it was a better fit. If you look at the tread widths for that particular tire (PS4S), you'll see that one size is particularly wide. Same width as the 275/30-19, which is what we are putting on the front of my 720 for this year...on 10's.

Last edited by AWH; 03-20-2019 at 02:21 PM.
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post #30 of 48 Old 03-20-2019, 11:09 PM
 
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What a great thread. Question: If I go with 19x9s in front and 19x11s all around, what are the tire sizes I should be using so the sensors don't throw a fit? Also what should be offsets and such to make sure things clear or is that dependent on wheel shape or style?
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