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post #16 of 112 Old 09-30-2016, 01:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Peloton25 View Post
Get on a plane, fly to Naples, Florida and visit the Revs Institute for Automotive Research. They have chassis 022 in their collection and despite the sign next to the car being slightly inaccurate, it's a fine example to see. The rest of the museum is quite wonderful as well.

Advanced tickets are required - you'll probably want to do one of the docent-led tours. Good idea to email them to verify the F1 will be on display during the time of your visit as well.

https://revsinstitute.org/

Some studio shots of their F1 here:

https://revsinstitute.org/the-collection/1995-mclaren/

>8^)
ER

Hey that's what I said. By the way I know this knucklehead who has a small garage in Naples with some cool cars if you go.


What is inaccurate on the sign, I'll take a better look on my next visit?


Edit: Peleton she also posted in the 688HS "MSO HS" thread.




I had to correct some spelling in my first post what a mess. I posted those articles because they contained business names that properties that are listed. I wouldn't want to know how many times that has been done to me or my family. But it is a way to find an address and send a letter. But I would still go see Freds' museum in Philly which the whole premise is racing improves the breed.


Good luck

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post #17 of 112 Old 09-30-2016, 02:07 AM
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@mclarendream - I cleaned up a few other posts and another thread where you were asking the same questions as here. I think you have some good leads in this thread. I hope it works out for you and you guys get to see an F1, but please let's keep the discussion in this thread and not spread out over several different spots on the site.

-Jamie.

“I had nothing to offer anybody except my own confusion.” ― Jack Kerouac
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post #18 of 112 Old 09-30-2016, 04:09 AM
 
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Useless facts of the day Miles Collier is my Mom's cousin. My grandmother was his Mom's sister. My great-grandfather and grandfather were the President and VP of American Brands tobacco. They were the basis for the advertising firm father and son characters on "Mad Men."






I think back in the day the Collier family had over a million acres of property but this was the pre air conditioning days. Even had Collier county named after them. Interesting story about that trip from Miami to Tampa or Tampa to Miami and the father Collier almost died in the swamps. Actually the brothers had a lot to do with the formation of racing in the early days in the USA.
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post #19 of 112 Old 09-30-2016, 05:39 AM
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Hey that's what I said.
Entered my response in her other thread, then merged that post here when I saw this duplicate thread and realized it was the active topic.

Quote:
By the way I know this knucklehead who has a small garage in Naples with some cool cars if you go.
I've been down there a couple of years ago and don't expect to head back although I'd certainly enjoy seeing the Revs collection again - truly great set of cars and appreciated the barrier-free display. I did a day trip driving from and back to Orlando with a flight to catch that afternoon, so I didn't get to spend nearly as much time there as I would have preferred.

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What is inaccurate on the sign, I'll take a better look on my next visit?
The sign beside their car reads: "A total of one prototype and 68 production F1 McLarens were built from 1993 to 1998."

Ignoring the fact that 106 total F1s were produced, including all variants - there is still an issue if you want to single out road cars as they have.

Their math is good, as the total count of 69 F1 road cars is accurate, but the actual breakdown was five prototypes and 64 production cars. I have tried to get them to correct this error, explaining the situation to two different people while I was there at the museum. Then I followed up with one of them by sending along quite a lot of supporting proof via email, but for whatever reason my efforts failed to get them to correct the sign as far as I'm aware. Frankly that's a little surprising for a place that refers to itself as an "Institute for Automotive Research" - few on the planet have done as much research on these cars as I have.

Additionally they claim their McLaren F1 is a "1995". This is untrue - chassis 022 was built in 1994, and the 10th position of its VIN is an "R" which equates to 1994. If it were actually a 1995 the 10th position would be an "S" instead. The registration in the state of Florida also recognizes the car as a 1995. I'm not certain whether that was Florida's titling error, or an error on the part of the person who submitted the registration request, but it is certainly not accurate. I pointed this out as well when I sent the email about the sign but they continue to promote the car as a "1995".

A few of the seven Ameritech F1s were imported as 1995 model year cars even though one was produced in 1996 and three were produced in 1997. This was done in order to avoid needing to comply with changing DOT and EPA regulations for 1996, but those cars also received new VINs in that process so there was a lot of funny business that went on. Anyway, the Revs' chassis 022 and was definitely not part of that group of seven, so it is hard to understand why the paperwork has ended up wrong on that one. I'm sure Mr Collier isn't losing any sleep over it, but I find inaccurate info annoying.

I did receive a polite 'thank you' in response when I sent my email, but never received a reply from anyone else at the museum with an explanation of their reasoning for leaving things as-is.

>8^)
ER
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post #20 of 112 Old 09-30-2016, 02:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Peloton25 View Post
Entered my response in her other thread, then merged that post here when I saw this duplicate thread and realized it was the active topic.



I've been down there a couple of years ago and don't expect to head back although I'd certainly enjoy seeing the Revs collection again - truly great set of cars and appreciated the barrier-free display. I did a day trip driving from and back to Orlando with a flight to catch that afternoon, so I didn't get to spend nearly as much time there as I would have preferred.



The sign beside their car reads: "A total of one prototype and 68 production F1 McLarens were built from 1993 to 1998."

Ignoring the fact that 106 total F1s were produced, including all variants - there is still an issue if you want to single out road cars as they have.

Their math is good, as the total count of 69 F1 road cars is accurate, but the actual breakdown was five prototypes and 64 production cars. I have tried to get them to correct this error, explaining the situation to two different people while I was there at the museum. Then I followed up with one of them by sending along quite a lot of supporting proof via email, but for whatever reason my efforts failed to get them to correct the sign as far as I'm aware. Frankly that's a little surprising for a place that refers to itself as an "Institute for Automotive Research" - few on the planet have done as much research on these cars as I have.

Additionally they claim their McLaren F1 is a "1995". This is untrue - chassis 022 was built in 1994, and the 10th position of its VIN is an "R" which equates to 1994. If it were actually a 1995 the 10th position would be an "S" instead. The registration in the state of Florida also recognizes the car as a 1995. I'm not certain whether that was Florida's titling error, or an error on the part of the person who submitted the registration request, but it is certainly not accurate. I pointed this out as well when I sent the email about the sign but they continue to promote the car as a "1995".

A few of the seven Ameritech F1s were imported as 1995 model year cars even though one was produced in 1996 and three were produced in 1997. This was done in order to avoid needing to comply with changing DOT and EPA regulations for 1996, but those cars also received new VINs in that process so there was a lot of funny business that went on. Anyway, the Revs' chassis 022 and was definitely not part of that group of seven, so it is hard to understand why the paperwork has ended up wrong on that one. I'm sure Mr Collier isn't losing any sleep over it, but I find inaccurate info annoying.

I did receive a polite 'thank you' in response when I sent my email, but never received a reply from anyone else at the museum with an explanation of their reasoning for leaving things as-is.

>8^)
ER

Thanks for that. I went back to the site to read the webpage and figured it had to do with the beginning part. I rarely go on social media , IG, never on facebook but the few times that I have and came across a F1 boom you are there to make a correction. I flew by the cars on GregB's IG and there you were correcting that intel on that orange GTR.


Maybe I'm ignorant and you have already published something but eventually the intel you gathered should be put to use in some way. Maybe not with current owners names but definitely the history part. The Cobras guys did so much over the years and there were problems with counterfeits from time to time not to mention "made up" histories. I noted this one time elsewhere when an auction of a Cobra was misrepresented and I stated that this sounded familiar and a person responded yes it was the same fellow that had a GT40 for repairs/rebuild and tried to do some funny business with those numbers. I always figured no one would try to counterfeit an F1 but I can see someone filling in the blanks so to speak.


I'm not sure what the issue(s) are on the F1 that they were unwilling to alter their history. It may be a few separate issues. First off it's Florida!!! Hey my family has many pieces of property there so no hating here. lol Their last election for governor was pathetic. As my dear mother stated one was a crook who billed the insurances for millions of dollars and the other was a total incompetent. Not to mention how the nuclear industry billed customers for a reactor that was never completed and abandoned. One thing that I find interesting is that years ago when both of my parents at different times obtained a Florida drivers license their names were spelled wrong. Different last names and Florida went by the handwriting on the birth certificates and completely ignored the legal spelling or whatever was issued by Connecticut. And I have to say the writing on those birth certificates are open to interpretation, could go either way.


It may be a mixture of reasons and we will probably never know. Hey maybe it's because Miles is a Porsche guy as I use to tell him. I'm sure that you know that museum was closed for some time but I use to tell people to contact the local Porsche dealer and ask to get connected to their high performance sales person to get in. This was sort of a back door for some to gain entrance or from time to time car clubs would host events there. Maybe it didn't reach the head curator. I know when Siemone's museum had an incorrect year on their website I just shot an email and they corrected it. But that was a glaring mistake.



They have such a large archive and adding to it all the time I'm wondering what they have internally on their own cars.


Maybe you & Scottishxj220 in the future can come up with a project combining both F1 & P1 intel.
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post #21 of 112 Old 09-30-2016, 03:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mclarendream View Post
Hi All,

I am on a mission to find a McLaren F1 in the US East Coast.

I have been working for a few years now and been in contact with MANY people including McLaren employees in the US and in WOking in the UK, in regards to finding someone in the East Coast with a McLaren that would let my husband an I see the vehicle. I have even gotten an offer to tour the Technology Center in the UK if i can get the money to get over there.

You see, the McLaren F1 is his ALL TIME dream vehicle. And for our 5 year wedding anniversary I would like to find one for him too see. He has been amazing to me and extremely understanding of a physical handicap that I have and I want to make our Anniversary special by doing something once in a life time for him.

If anyone out there has any connections to help make this possible PLEASE reach out to me!
Stop by The Revs Institute in Naples, Fl. and I will not only personally open up every door, hood and panel so he can get close and personal with our F1, but I'll even let him sit in the driver's seat. How's that sound?
https://revsinstitute.org/plan-a-visit/tickets/


Here is the car
https://revsinstitute.org/the-collection/1995-mclaren/

I'll make a separate response to the claims of inaccurate history or lack of replying.

Nerdy Greasemonkey
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post #22 of 112 Old 09-30-2016, 03:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Peloton25 View Post
Entered my response in her other thread, then merged that post here when I saw this duplicate thread and realized it was the active topic.



I've been down there a couple of years ago and don't expect to head back although I'd certainly enjoy seeing the Revs collection again - truly great set of cars and appreciated the barrier-free display. I did a day trip driving from and back to Orlando with a flight to catch that afternoon, so I didn't get to spend nearly as much time there as I would have preferred.



The sign beside their car reads: "A total of one prototype and 68 production F1 McLarens were built from 1993 to 1998."

Ignoring the fact that 106 total F1s were produced, including all variants - there is still an issue if you want to single out road cars as they have.

Their math is good, as the total count of 69 F1 road cars is accurate, but the actual breakdown was five prototypes and 64 production cars. I have tried to get them to correct this error, explaining the situation to two different people while I was there at the museum. Then I followed up with one of them by sending along quite a lot of supporting proof via email, but for whatever reason my efforts failed to get them to correct the sign as far as I'm aware. Frankly that's a little surprising for a place that refers to itself as an "Institute for Automotive Research" - few on the planet have done as much research on these cars as I have.

Additionally they claim their McLaren F1 is a "1995". This is untrue - chassis 022 was built in 1994, and the 10th position of its VIN is an "R" which equates to 1994. If it were actually a 1995 the 10th position would be an "S" instead. The registration in the state of Florida also recognizes the car as a 1995. I'm not certain whether that was Florida's titling error, or an error on the part of the person who submitted the registration request, but it is certainly not accurate. I pointed this out as well when I sent the email about the sign but they continue to promote the car as a "1995".

A few of the seven Ameritech F1s were imported as 1995 model year cars even though one was produced in 1996 and three were produced in 1997. This was done in order to avoid needing to comply with changing DOT and EPA regulations for 1996, but those cars also received new VINs in that process so there was a lot of funny business that went on. Anyway, the Revs' chassis 022 and was definitely not part of that group of seven, so it is hard to understand why the paperwork has ended up wrong on that one. I'm sure Mr Collier isn't losing any sleep over it, but I find inaccurate info annoying.

I did receive a polite 'thank you' in response when I sent my email, but never received a reply from anyone else at the museum with an explanation of their reasoning for leaving things as-is.

>8^)
ER
I personally responded to your email when you were so kind to point out errors in our text panel next to our F1.

Here is my actual response cut and paste from the email:

"Erik , Thank you for your comments and interest. Please do come by and visit if you get to our

area. Actually the F1 details are essentially accurate as written, however, the length of the text won’t

allow for a deeper explanation regarding the F1 prototypes. Doug Nye helped us create that text and

stands by the condensed version. We would be pleased to talk with you more on this subject as time

allows." If you never received it then I sincerely apologize.

I remember you also came by the museum and had Fernando as a Docent because he was so kind as to pass on your input about the prototype numbers being incorrect.
I pulled this from his email:
"Based upon Doug Nye's book "Driving Ambition" it seems that McClaren produced five prototype F1's and 64 production models. Our plaque indicates that one prototype was made with 68 production models. FYI: The count is limited to the number of prototypes and standard street models and does not reflect the additional competition and hi-performance variants."

My response to Fernando was:
"I do remember his email. The funny part about it is the fact that he quotes Doug Nye as saying in his book, Doug Nye wrote our text panel for our McLaren F1.

When dealing with prototypes, production cars , race cars, test cars the waters can get murky pretty quick especially when it comes to what constitutes a prototype vs a production car. Especially since the company can easily re-badge or serial number a prototype to become a production car. "



Most of your information you said came from the book written by Doug Nye, well he also is the one who wrote our history and text panels as you can see in my above response when Fernando questioned it. So I talked with Doug because of course we want to be accurate as possible, but we do not just change history and text when written by one of the world's foremost authorities on automobile history because one person sends an email claiming they know the facts. Nothing personal, but we receive emails every day with people telling us "facts" when they typically have the story wrong, or with automotive history, it can be so murky when researching, so before we ever change a thing we do an enormous amount of research which is extremely time-consuming. It does help that we have one of the world's most complete automotive libraries but even then some of the facts are obscure or unclear, usually because of manufacturers doing shady stuff like switching serial numbers. They did that with Enzo's Superamerica that we own along with our GT-40 which raced under two different serial numbers. Actual Enzo's personal Ferrari had the serial number changed three times, Once when he owned it, then a new one when he sold it, and yet again back to the original number when he got the car back again.

This was straight from Doug Nye when asked about your email, bear in mind most of Doug's information came directly from Gordon Murray, plus we are really good friends with him and Peter Stevens. (I just spent a week with Peter in Montana this past August):

I think in trying to simplify that McLaren F1 description I must have just over-simplified the line with which your irritating - but entirely justified - complainant is taking issue.

Just re-checking my own work in 'Driving Ambition' - which was, after all, confirmed and verified by my then friends at the factory, the detailed situation was as follows:

Prototype cars serialled XP1 to XP5 - so five cars, one destroyed in the Namibian desert, others effectively finished to production spec and still (as far as I know) in existence - eg Gordon Murray's personal car.

There are several complications within the production list of road and racing variants, with the LM homologation models and five assorted 'specials'. BUT, excluding the five original XP prototypes of which four survived, the road car cumulative build number list totals 64 vehicles. Including the five XPs we get 69 - there were then 28 GTRs in varied form PLUS the five 'specials' built for assorted purposes (including favours to effective project sponsors, etc etc etc). So the total of McLaren F1 'entities' built overall is officially 5 + 64 + 5 + 28 + 5 oddballs. This gives us an overall total of:

One Hundred & Seven (107)

But then we get into the murky world of replacement bodyshells (as supplied to repair Rowan Atkinson's car (twice, I believe), and possibly also Tony Smith's, etc etc etc...

I would happily, for simplicity's sake, leave it more or less the way it was.

Best - Doug



Hopefully, that sheds some light on our text panel and history but I would love to further discuss this if you want and once again I am really sorry if you never saw my response to your original email. We always appreciate when people find new history or report something wrong with any of our vehicles, we strive to represent them in the most accurate fashion.
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post #23 of 112 Old 09-30-2016, 04:36 PM
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One Hundred & Seven (107)
Wow! I'm going to remember that number. I always thought it was 106 but this confirms it is 107.
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post #24 of 112 Old 09-30-2016, 05:03 PM
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Wow! I'm going to remember that number. I always thought it was 106 but this confirms it is 107.
If you remember "107", be sure to remember to subtract 1 from it.

Peloton is right. Regarding F1s, he is pretty much always right.
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post #25 of 112 Old 09-30-2016, 05:17 PM
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Grey Racer,

Peloton will probably come along to address some of your points but, regardless of what you may have understood from Doug Nye (who appears to contradict some of what he himself wrote in his own book):

- Two road car prototypes were destroyed. The first, as you say, was the wreck in the desert. The second was the car used for the Type Approval crash test.

- There were not "5 oddballs". There were 6 F1 LMs - a prototype and 5 customer cars - and there were 3 F1 GTs (long-tail road cars) - a prototype and 2 customer cars.

Therefore there were:
- 5 road car prototypes
- 64 customer road cars
- 28 GTR racing cars (including one prototype)
- 6 LMs and
- 3 GTs.

106 total cars, of which 100 survive.
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post #26 of 112 Old 09-30-2016, 06:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by New Britain View Post
Grey Racer,

Peloton will probably come along to address some of your points but, regardless of what you may have understood from Doug Nye (who appears to contradict some of what he himself wrote in his own book):

- Two road car prototypes were destroyed. The first, as you say, was the wreck in the desert. The second was the car used for the Type Approval crash test.

- There were not "5 oddballs". There were 6 F1 LMs - a prototype and 5 customer cars - and there were 3 F1 GTs (long-tail road cars) - a prototype and 2 customer cars.

Therefore there were:
- 5 road car prototypes
- 64 customer road cars
- 28 GTR racing cars (including one prototype)
- 6 LMs and
- 3 GTs.

106 total cars, of which 100 survive.
Thank you so much for the reply, looking forward to what Peloton has to add. Sources for the data is always extremely helpful when documenting these changes.

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post #27 of 112 Old 09-30-2016, 07:11 PM
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I personally responded to your email when you were so kind to point out errors in our text panel next to our F1.

Here is my actual response cut and paste from the email:

"Erik , Thank you for your comments and interest. Please do come by and visit if you get to our

area. Actually the F1 details are essentially accurate as written, however, the length of the text won’t

allow for a deeper explanation regarding the F1 prototypes. Doug Nye helped us create that text and

stands by the condensed version. We would be pleased to talk with you more on this subject as time

allows." If you never received it then I sincerely apologize.
Nope, only the brief thank you from Fernando. I do wish I had received your reply then as it would have been great to continue this dialogue at that time and hopefully have been able to convince you to make the correction already. Definitely appreciate the time you have taken to piece this together here now and I'll try to address each point you have supplied as clearly as possible below.

Quote:
My response to Fernando was:
"I do remember his email. The funny part about it is the fact that he quotes Doug Nye as saying in his book, Doug Nye wrote our text panel for our McLaren F1.

When dealing with prototypes, production cars , race cars, test cars the waters can get murky pretty quick especially when it comes to what constitutes a prototype vs a production car. Especially since the company can easily re-badge or serial number a prototype to become a production car. "
I will agree that those things do happen when it comes to automobiles, but state unequivocally that they have certainly not happened with the structure of chassis sequencing on the McLaren F1. The only F1 prototype that was upgraded to full production spec was XP5, but that activity did not in any way change its original designation as a "prototype" and the car still carries its prototype chassis identifier, and VIN, as well as the sticker along its flanks that reads "XP5 - Experimental Prototype". If you were to contact MSO's Heritage group today and inquire about XP5 they would no doubt confirm it remains a "prototype" in their eyes as well.

Quote:
Most of your information you said came from the book written by Doug Nye, well he also is the one who wrote our history and text panels as you can see in my above response when Fernando questioned it. So I talked with Doug because of course we want to be accurate as possible, but we do not just change history and text when written by one of the world's foremost authorities on automobile history because one person sends an email claiming they know the facts. Nothing personal, but we receive emails every day with people telling us "facts" when they typically have the story wrong, or with automotive history, it can be so murky when researching, so before we ever change a thing we do an enormous amount of research which is extremely time-consuming. It does help that we have one of the world's most complete automotive libraries but even then some of the facts are obscure or unclear, usually because of manufacturers doing shady stuff like switching serial numbers. They did that with Enzo's Superamerica that we own along with our GT-40 which raced under two different serial numbers. Actual Enzo's personal Ferrari had the serial number changed three times, Once when he owned it, then a new one when he sold it, and yet again back to the original number when he got the car back again.

This was straight from Doug Nye when asked about your email, bear in mind most of Doug's information came directly from Gordon Murray, plus we are really good friends with him and Peter Stevens. (I just spent a week with Peter in Montana this past August):

I think in trying to simplify that McLaren F1 description I must have just over-simplified the line with which your irritating - but entirely justified - complainant is taking issue.

Just re-checking my own work in 'Driving Ambition' - which was, after all, confirmed and verified by my then friends at the factory, the detailed situation was as follows:

Prototype cars serialled XP1 to XP5 - so five cars, one destroyed in the Namibian desert, others effectively finished to production spec and still (as far as I know) in existence - eg Gordon Murray's personal car.
Doug Nye's efforts with "Driving Ambition" were certainly a major building block for the knowledge that I possess today, but on the back of that I've spent more than a decade pouring over every other detail I could find about these cars and continue to live/eat/sleep/breathe the F1, which I think it's very fair to say (with all due respect) is not true for Doug.

XP2 was also destroyed by the factory following the end of its useful life as a prototype. It had been used as the crash test car at MIRA in 1993 - the one Gordon Murray had hoped to be inside of when it impacted the barrier given he was so confident in the F1s safety. XP2 was a fairly crude example of the F1 and the factory have confirmed that it no longer exists today.

The F1 road car prototypes still remaining are XP3 with Gordon Murray; XP4 in private hands now in California with collector Craig McCaw; and XP5 which McLaren have kept in their own collection in Woking. Both XP3 and XP4 still retain very obvious visible clues that give reference to their prototype status, including stickers similar to the ones on XP5, so full production spec they are not.

Quote:
There are several complications within the production list of road and racing variants, with the LM homologation models and five assorted 'specials'. BUT, excluding the five original XP prototypes of which four survived, the road car cumulative build number list totals 64 vehicles. Including the five XPs we get 69 - there were then 28 GTRs in varied form PLUS the five 'specials' built for assorted purposes (including favours to effective project sponsors, etc etc etc). So the total of McLaren F1 'entities' built overall is officially 5 + 64 + 5 + 28 + 5 oddballs. This gives us an overall total of:

One Hundred & Seven (107)
I don't believe it is accurate to say "There are several complications..." The listing of F1 chassis numbers and what purpose each of them were built for is very clear and has not been altered by any changes to the cars over the years or called into question by any "new" information uncovered in the over 15 years that I have spent researching these cars.

There are certainly not 5 "oddballs". While I don't doubt your statement that those words have come from Doug, I struggle to believe that he'd be so vague there.

One of those five would be the F1 LM prototype, chassis 'XP1LM' which McLaren have kept.

Three of them are the F1 GT longtail road cars built to homologate the longtail F1 GTRs in 1997. These were built out of sequence by number - the prototype which McLaren have kept is 56XPGT, then 54F1GT was sold to Brunei and 58F1GT was sold to Japan. Both remain in those respective locations today.

The last "oddball" should not be counted at all as it was a spare chassis never intended to be completed into a finished F1. This spare chassis was later used to rebuild a damaged car, taking on that car's original chassis number. This is why New Britain accurately suggests that we need to subtract 1 from the count that Doug has provided to you. There was never a 107th F1 produced.

Quote:
But then we get into the murky world of replacement bodyshells (as supplied to repair Rowan Atkinson's car (twice, I believe), and possibly also Tony Smith's, etc etc etc...

I would happily, for simplicity's sake, leave it more or less the way it was.

Best - Doug
A good number of F1s have been rebuilt - a few with new chassis as part of the process, but they have all retained their original chassis number in every instance. Atkinson's didn't need a chassis in its first crash, but certainly did the second time around. That car, now in the hands of a new owner, still carries chassis 061 as it did when it first left the factory in 1997.

Quote:
Hopefully, that sheds some light on our text panel and history but I would love to further discuss this if you want and once again I am really sorry if you never saw my response to your original email. We always appreciate when people find new history or report something wrong with any of our vehicles, we strive to represent them in the most accurate fashion.
It certainly sheds light on the reasoning he used, but I'm going to be very stubborn in my insistence that it still doesn't accurately satisfy the facts of the matter or serve to correct the error that has been published on your sign.

Take for example the current situation with McLaren selling P1 prototypes. We all know the production car count was 375 units, and given all the currently available information McLaren had produced 22 P1 prototypes. They have now, in post-production, chosen to refurbish and sell 15 of those prototypes to private customers, but that action doesn't increase the production car count to 390, nor has it reduced the prototype count to 7.

I saw two of those P1 prototypes during the month of August - VP4 and XP10 - both still proudly referencing their prototype origins, including the Georgia license plate "VP4" on that chassis. If you asked the owners of those cars or even MSO whether these cars were production cars or prototypes I am certain the answer you receive would be clear, in spite of the fact that they have been upgraded to full production spec to make them saleable units.

As a last gasp effort to hopefully enlighten you beyond the words of the esteemed Doug Nye - here is an exact digital duplication I have created of the McLaren F1 Chassis History poster that is included with the book "Driving Ambition", covering each car in detail. This is the factory's data presented in a very concise format - the only changes necessary using present day knowledge would be to the colors listed for cars which have since been resprayed.



Of course you won't be able to read it at this resolution ^^^ but that image should be clickable for a Hi-Res version measuring 4415x1082 pixels. If you can't access the full version that way, hopefully you can through this secondary Dropbox link.

Scrolling all the way to the end on the right you can clearly see the final F1 chassis breakdown and how that dubious "107" number was obtained. You can also reference the build slot for your own chassis 022 and see very clearly how falls very squarely into the the batch of cars produced in 1994, and not 1995.

I would be very happy to, for the sake of accuracy instead of simplicity, see you make the change to that sign. If you have any further questions/comments on this or any other topic related to the F1 I'm very pleased to help address them to the best of my knowledge.

>8^)
ER
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Andy Wallace on the McLaren F1 after setting the 240.1 MPH speed record at Ehra Lessien on March 31st 1998:

"I still say this is the best car ever built, ever, and probably will never be beaten."

Last edited by Peloton25; 09-30-2016 at 10:24 PM.
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post #28 of 112 Old 09-30-2016, 07:23 PM
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Peloton is right. Regarding F1s, he is pretty much always right.
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Peloton will probably come along to address some of your points...
Thanks for the assist there and also for your very kind words of recognition.

I certainly try to get it right and try very hard to help others keep the story straight as well. That's always been the primary goal in all of this - share the knowledge and spread the enthusiasm for the wonderful F1. Over the years there have been countless numbers of people around the world with some connection to these cars who have assisted me in the process of obtaining the knowledge I curate, for which I am extremely grateful.

>8^)
ER

Andy Wallace on the McLaren F1 after setting the 240.1 MPH speed record at Ehra Lessien on March 31st 1998:

"I still say this is the best car ever built, ever, and probably will never be beaten."

Last edited by Peloton25; 09-30-2016 at 10:54 PM.
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post #29 of 112 Old 09-30-2016, 09:25 PM
 
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Love it.

So much magnesium silver.

It would be interesting to know how many total chassis have been built (i.e., the one spare + how many replacements).
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post #30 of 112 Old 09-30-2016, 09:40 PM
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Love it.

So much magnesium silver.

It would be interesting to know how many total chassis have been built (i.e., the one spare + how many replacements).
You mean, how many chassis numbers have had some or all of a new chassis built and attached to them?
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