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P1 Ring Time

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#1 ·
New thread on P1 Ring times. Please try to keep it on topic.

Will they get under 7 minutes?
 
#3 ·
My bet would be beating the Porsche too. Only reservation would be weight of hybrid system and batteries, and possibly if the trick aero needs a more consistent / low ride height than is possible on the mixed smoothness of the Ring. I could see it properly destroying road car times on more regular race circuits.
 
#7 ·
Arguably the Porsche has better initial acceleration. So 0-40mph or so is likely slightly faster. From then on the P1 quickly catches up and becomes quicker. But, I think it does not matter since the P1 can likely take most turns at considerably faster speeds than the Porsche in the first place, which will completely negate that benefit it has...

We will see... :)
 
#16 ·
I really didn't plan or want to getting into this discussion (everybody has an opinion).

However, I think your looking at this strictly through a McLaren's fans eyes (as I understand). No problem with that. That's the joy of forums like this. Regardless of who's faster on what, I just wanted to say this/'Food For Thought':

I think the 918 will be faster 0-60 than the P1.

If a 3600 lb, 550 HP/550 Torque 911 Turbo S can go 2.4-2.6, what do you think a 3600-3700 lb, 900 HP (940 ftlbs) 918's gonna do? I think the 918 will be faster in the 1/4 mile as well (though not as big as in 0-60). Due to weight, and the decoupling of the front motor above 146 mph, I feel the P1 will be faster above 1/4 mile and on longer straights.

As far as cornering: Don't sleep on the 918. Everyone drivers that's driven it, virtually states it has some of (if NOT THE) best turn in and exit they've ever experienced on a road vehicle. It can supposedly corner at 2+G's as well. This is due to it's extremely low COG (the lowest out of the 3 Hyper-brids), 4WS, 4WD, Torque vectoring, and it's enormous torque, which dwarfs the other three vehicles. The 918's aero package and chassis, is nothing to sneeze at as well. I know McLaren's good to. But I don't think your giving the 918 it's due credit in this area.

As far a the ring: I think McLaren is unfortunately setting up many of it's most passionate true believers with disappointment. This 6:30ish time that Autoweek mentioned "from a source" sounds sheepishly like the 6:30 time mood board fiasco of several months ago. How could a team, that could barely hit 7:04 (and others say it was even worse than that), now talk 6:30 ish times again? And I know many here believe it, cause it's McLaren. However, that remains to be seen (especially if McLaren's adding sector times, for a vehicles which may have a compromised Hybrid drive train to begin with).

The last we heard, McLaren was to attack the ring again with new Pirelli's. I don't think it was 'Porsche-like sandbagging (the reputed 7:04 time)', cause obviously McLaren wanted to make some sort of big announcement several weeks ago, and did not/hastily aborted it. Aren't they supposed to produce this car soon as well? Lol

I'm not sure, what McLaren's going to do as far a ring time. However, it seems like an unnecessary obsession with them from my perspective. If they do beat the 918's current time, they will have to SMASH IT, cause no one will care if they do. "Been there, done that" is what many would feel. Plus, Porsche's already reaped the fan fare, adulation, sales and benefits from the worlds motoring press at Frankfurt. McLaren would have to make it significant, for Porsche not break it back as well, as they already been serving notice this week. However, I don't know if McLaren can/will? As FTYL (and others) said earlier, "We'll see?" Good Luck to them though. Either way; I'm sure they P1 will be a great car, and please many of it's fans for years. I wish them well.

I'm not sure what we can gauge from the LaFerrari, when it's not even known to have an advanced prototype yet (and as WT Doom mentioned, ' if we can we believe it's specs')? I guess, we'll have to see on that one as well? Not much to say.

The time for talking is over with these manufacturer's Now they just have to produce, with their working vehicles. Too many undelivered promises so far. I'm also curious to see if the both the P1 and LaFe come in at over 3400+ lbs as Motor Trend expects them to?

Once again; I'm not saying what the P1 won't and can can't do (that's up to actual performance). This was just food for thought.
 
#9 · (Edited)
I think it will beat 918 eventually , or at least it should . As for corner speeds ( re ftyl) I think that it will depend of the corner . More accurately the speed of the corner . On a corner reliant on mechanical grip the 918 will obviously have the edge on higher speed downforce corners I think the p1 will kill every road car yet seen . Going into corners the 918 will be noticeably faster to a Pro but in acceleration especially higher speeds the p1 is noticeably faster . ( this is why the 918 will be fastest on real roads a to b and the p1 faster in track ).
The enigma of the bunch is the la Ferrari . This is potentially the fastest car here . Lightest ( unless they lie) , most powerful ( unless they lie) as aerodynamically advanced as p1 ( unless they lie ) and as track focused as p1 .
Obviously , weather , quality of surface etc will be deciding factors too . But in general terms I expect each car to be faster on the tracks that best suit that particular cars characteristics. This is simple logic ( at least lying here on my couch watching count duckula it sounds really quite clever ).
 
#11 ·
There is one thing we have to do Doom! So regardless of us getting in heated discussions on here, let's promise each other one thing... We will do the best to bring the 918 and the P1 together to one location to do a bunch of tests with it. Honestly curious what each can do better than the other since I am rather sure you are right on many points above. And we all know how much we can "trust" car shows or magazines doing tests...

So the honest real way is a test among owners, don't you think? :)
 
#14 ·
Sounds good to me. I can probably arrange another former f1 pilot through some connections of mine..

When do you get your 918, any rough idea yet?
 
#18 ·
CarMeister, you are entitled to your opinion. People that constantly complain that others believe only one side, usually believe only the other ;) As in your case...

All great stats you posted. By your logic, considering you think a 918 is faster than a Turbo S because it has more HP and more torque.. awesome... that would also mean that a 2800lb P1 with even more HP than the 918 is going to be even faster.

But you know yourself that this does not hold up, because it depends on much more things than just weight and HP. All numbers, all stats, all figures, all talk in magazines, all talk posted here, is in the end just hearsay and PR.

Who knows what the P1 can do at the Ring, the only thing we know for a fact is that the 918 can do 6:57... The rest is all to come...
 
#26 ·
CarMeister, you are entitled to your opinion. People that constantly complain that others believe only one side, usually believe only the other ;) As in your case...

All great stats you posted. By your logic, considering you think a 918 is faster than a Turbo S because it has more HP and more torque.. awesome... that would also mean that a 2800lb P1 with even more HP than the 918 is going to be even faster.

But you know yourself that this does not hold up, because it depends on much more things than just weight and HP. All numbers, all stats, all figures, all talk in magazines, all talk posted here, is in the end just hearsay and <acronym title="Google Page Ranking">PR</acronym>.

Who knows what the P1 can do at the Ring, the only thing we know for a fact is that the 918 can do 6:57... The rest is all to come...
You believe the P1 is going to be 2800lbs? :) Where'd you get that number, and you believe it? :confused:

Good points earlier. However, I think Comparing a Porsche to another Porsche, makes more sense (if we had to make one) than comparing a Porsche to a McLaren, by your example. :)

Porsche consistently/historically outperforms it's HP numbers, and/or tells the truth--it seems, compared to other manufacture's and their sometimes nebulous, overly optimistic claims. And I feel there's a massive torque gap (which rarely gets discussed) between the two vehicles. The hybrid power trains can be an issue as well (in boost, duration and longevity). So the HP ratings (to me), is not as big a deal as many want to believe. We'll see about the weight? And of course, I've discussed the other facets of the 918 performance. And we do have a advanced Ring baseline (if 7:04 is to be believed) of the two vehicles. I just want to see/hear more from the P1, and less speculation and McLaren quotes and boast.

We'll see what happens indeed?
 
#31 · (Edited)
There is only one way to know which car is faster at the Ring and that is exactly what has been proposed - get three customer cars selected at random, and have them run by a (or several) highly qualified race driver(s) on identical tires.
The Porsche fan boys on here that claim the superiority of their 918 surely do understand the particular 918 that did the sub 7 time was highly optimized for the ring - or he is smoking something very ludicrous fogging up his minor mental faculties! I am sure the same will be the case for the P1 and the LaF, but the point is this intellectual masturbation about what Porsche did is disingenuous.

Since everybody is entitled to his opinion - here is mine: These cars are so close and capable, the winner at the Ring will be the car with the most extreme tire that can be claimed a street legal tire: The best tire will win!

Somebody pls also help me with what 0-60 times have to do with racing at the Ring - is traffic there now so bad that they do stop and go at every turn? :rolleyes:
 
#33 ·
There is only one way to know which car is faster at the Ring and that is exactly what has been proposed - get three customer cars selected at random, and have them run by a (or several) highly qualified race driver(s) on identical tires.
The Porsche fan boys on here that claim the superiority of their 918 surely do understand the particular 918 that did the sub 7 time was highly optimized for the ring - or he is smoking something very ludicrous fogging up his minor mental faculties! I am sure the same will be the case for the P1 and the LaF, but the point is this intellectual masturbation about what Porsche did is disingenuous.

Since everybody is entitled to his opinion - here is mine: These cars are so close and capable, the winner at the Ring will be the car with the most extreme tire that can be claimed a street legal tire: The best tire will win!

Somebody pls also help me with what 0-60 times have to do with racing at the Ring - is traffic there now so bad that they do stop and go at every turn? :rolleyes:
FYI

There was nothing "highly optimized for the ring with that 918". It was a Weissach package vehicle. That's all.

If anything, we can say the opposite (No active Aero employed; Drivers did only 1-3 runs on that day; ECO Street tires; car wasn't pushed as hard, etc., according to Lieb and Walliser). It doesn't' matter to me. But you're "highly optimized" statement was incorrect.

I think the "0-60" was brought up, when someone earlier had mentioned "0-40" times (FTYL I think)?.

If the best tire wins, then it should be the P1 or LaFe, as the Porsche has ECO Sports tires (albeit good, but not sell out/fully dedicated sports or track tires). :)
 
#32 ·
What time would be consider successful for the P1?

918 may not be the fastest of the 3 when the dust settles, but it has already taken the honour of 1st to break 7 mins in a true production car.

Personally I think a 6:4x would be the benchmark for them, maybe even below 6:47 just so they can take the tile of fastest from the Zonda R and Radical, production street car or not.
 
#35 ·
The geo is standard " fast road " you get choice of 3 . Suspension is adjustable .
That's a standard thing surely ? Not like turning up the boost on a turbo vehicle or " custom " tyres or some of the stupid games manufacturers play .
What is undeniable is Porsche times at the ring ( give or take a few seconds, which is perfectly understandable ) are always achieved in independent tests with customer cars ( and often beaten ) . Very few manufacturers are the same .
One more thing about cups , ( running cups or not ) Cups are far from a slick TS that's just factually incorrect matey . 6.48 was cut slick type ( non e rated ) time that's a substantial drop .
 
#36 ·
Those may be Michelin Sports Cup 2 tires. However (unless something is wrong/amiss, or telling fibs) they were equally optimized for rolling resistance, as well as contact patch and stickiness. In other words, the 918 can/will probably lower it's times an additional 5-10 secs with more dedicated track tires.

Regardless of what the team did or didn't do with the car; It still had no active aero; went on limited runs, wasn't on slicks or wholly dedicated track tires, along with not being pushed as hard (according to Lieb and the video).

Now this is all what Porsche says, granted. I'll give you that. However, If I had to believe one camp over the other (especially regarding what's been bandied about the past year or so), it would be Porsche.

We'll see? Let the best track car (at least for this discussion) win
 
#45 ·
If you think Michelin Sport Cup 2's aren't some of the grippiest (in the lateral direction) nonslicks or noncut slicks, you'd be wrong. It's very doable to get properties of high friction laterally but not in the forward or rearward orientation. Michelin and Porsche's first priority was performance. Then it was wet weather and low rolling resistance. Low rolling resistance is a performance feature. It sure as hell helps on the ring with all the fast sections
 
#49 · (Edited)
Call me crazy, but I always get a little skeptical of these laptimes when a manufacturer shows up and spends an entire week there with 20+ engineers and a truckload full of tools and laptops.

I'm not pointing the finger specifically at Porsche, I'm painting every manufacturer that goes there with the same brush.:)
 
#50 ·
kverges;57134 [B said:
If you don't think Porsche optimized the car for a publicized 'Ring run I think you are dreaming. Just like Mclaren will do with the P1 and Dodge did with the ACR. The time is brilliant but I am confident it was done with the car set up for that purpose. ]Hopefully there was not a special tune on the car or anything like that, as I would view that as deceptive.
Gee? Is it just me, or is Porsche (as WT Doom recently mentioned) one of the few car makers, where Auto Motor Und Sport Magazine consistently duplicates Porsche ring time with customer cars? I dunno, maybe I just imagined that reality over the past several years. :rolleyes:

As far as I know (which is more than I can say about many other car makers), Porsche is one of the more transparent and honest of the car manufacturer's/Ring Meisters, among a den of thieves.

They also haven't made any crazy boast recently, that they would have to live up to/lie/cover up for [for example], that a certain sports car maker has/may have to do? Porsche has just went about doing their business with the 918 Spyder.
 
#51 ·
The hate some people develop :) scary...

CarMeister, all you are posting is rumors. And btw, Auto Motor & Sport is probably the most bribed magazine on this planet.
 
#53 ·
Didn't your guy Mark Antan from Australia here (sorry if I spelled his name wrong), recently say, he had a friend in the business that told him, 'Porsche's the most honest/transparent automaker'???? Now whether, that's true or not. How come you didn't challenge him on that statement?

Let's get this straight. You have guys speculating on Porsche cheating, and you don't call that "rumors (Kverges, Drifter, MPB, etc.)". However, when I quote Porsche and the vehicles used, that is? SMH/LOL...Wow!

As far as Auto Motor Und Sport: The point was, Nissan, and many other car makers can't duplicate their times on the Ring, as others have done with Porsche (Auto Motor Und Sport included). That's the main take away.

And I guess your "most bribed magazine on the planet" statement, doesn't qualify as rumor? :confused: I got it. Lol
 
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