[6th element]

Originally Posted by Whoopsy

BIG BIG difference.

The V12 in F1 is made by BMW especially FOR the F1

The V8 in 12C is made by Ricardo especially FOR the 12C.

No other cars in the world share those engines.

Pagani just buy the regular production AMG V12 that's in every Mercedes 65s. Might be retuned but it's still the same engine.

It's the difference between having Picasso paint a special picture for you or buying a Picasso draft off the shelf and fill in the color by someone else.

Regardless of the semantics, calling Pagani a kit car company is hardly credible, in my opinion. And anyway, even if the F1's engine was specifically made for it, Murray only provided power, weight, efficiency targets, etc in his brief to BMW. It's not like he designed it. Plus, my understanding is that BMW originally planned to use a variant of their production V12, which Murray only rejected because it was too heavy. So only then did BMW offer to build a motor from scratch. So I don't really see your point at all.

[MitchF1GTR]

Yeah, M158 is it's code, that's bespoke to Pagani.

[Whoopsy]

The AMG M158 V12 used in the Huayra is based off the production M275 V12. Same block, bore and stroke, just tuned differently and with different exterior attachments like intercoolers and stuff. Kind of like the Cayenne/Toureg relationship.

This is still very different than asking AMG to specially design a new engine for them.

[Whoopsy]

Originally Posted by 6th element

Regardless of the semantics, calling Pagani a kit car company is hardly credible, in my opinion. And anyway, even if the F1's engine was specifically made for it, Murray only provided power, weight, efficiency targets, etc in his brief to BMW. It's not like he designed it. Plus, my understanding is that BMW originally planned to use a variant of their production V12, which Murray only rejected because it was too heavy. So only then did BMW offer to build a motor from scratch. So I don't really see your point at all.

You actually hit the nail exactly.

Murray has a target for BMW to hit, and BMW cannot do it with their production block. So has to be a bespoke new ground up engine block that has no cousins in the automotive world. that's called unique in my book.

[6th element]

Originally Posted by Whoopsy

The AMG M158 V12 used in the Huayra is based off the production M275 V12. Same block, bore and stroke, just tuned differently and with different exterior attachments like intercoolers and stuff. Kind of like the Cayenne/Toureg relationship.

This is still very different than asking AMG to specially design a new engine for them.

No, not really. Just means the core engine is designed well enough to meet Pagani's criteria. Like I said, if Bimmer had a production motor that met Murray's criteria, he would have taken it for the F1.

[6th element]

Originally Posted by Whoopsy

You actually hit the nail exactly.

Murray has a target for BMW to hit, and BMW cannot do it with their production block. So has to be a bespoke new ground up engine block that has no cousins in the automotive world. that's called unique in my book.

But your basis for calling Horatio a kit car is that he accepted a production based engine. And so would have Murray if it was light enough. So on that basis alone, the F1 would have been a kit car?

[atmclf1lmxp1lm]

As Erik has said repeatedly in the past, to less effect than I would hope, it continues to amaze me how quickly people like to pass judgement on the P1 based on 3 photos that don't always show the best aspects of whichever area of the P1 they're focusing on. We haven't even seen the entire picture yet, yet people are already pretty much condemning the P1's interior. Maybe those who have been lucky enough to attend one of the F150 private previews know what they're talking about, but to me it still seems incredibly presumptuous to declare one car the winner over the other when most of the world hasn't even seen the full picture of both cars yet.

In fact I have it on good authority from a trusted source that these initial photos are only the tip of the iceberg, and that they are far from the best ones. They told me to wait especially until the top view of the dash, and the driver's view of the center console area are revealed. McLaren are holding them back because they're quite special.

Trust me - where P1 is concerned, the best is yet to come.

For those who've had the fantastic opportunity to see and experience the yellow Geneva P1 in person, was a chassis or registry number spotted anywhere? Thanks in advance.

ADW

[MitchF1GTR]

Alex, are you seeking to be to P1 what Erik is to F1 (and let's face it, all of McLaren)? Just curious....

[atmclf1lmxp1lm]

My simple want is to share McLaren info and photos as openly as I can with anyone who wants to learn about them and has an interest, because that's my job as a McLaren enthusiast - to share knowledge and spread the passion. If you have a problem or issue with that, then I really don't understand it.

It is true that I am hugely passionate about the P1.

ADW

[MitchF1GTR]

I have no issue or problem, just curious.

[Mark ANTAR]

Originally Posted by MitchF1GTR

I have no issue or problem, just curious.

Curious Mitch!

[Mark ANTAR]

Originally Posted by atmclf1lmxp1lm

As Erik has said repeatedly in the past, to less effect than I would hope, it continues to amaze me how quickly people like to pass judgement on the P1 based on 3 photos that don't always show the best aspects of whichever area of the P1 they're focusing on. We haven't even seen the entire picture yet, yet people are already pretty much condemning the P1's interior. Maybe those who have been lucky enough to attend one of the F150 private previews know what they're talking about, but to me it still seems incredibly presumptuous to declare one car the winner over the other when most of the world hasn't even seen the full picture of both cars yet.

In fact I have it on good authority from a trusted source that these initial photos are only the tip of the iceberg, and that they are far from the best ones. They told me to wait especially until the top view of the dash, and the driver's view of the center console area are revealed. McLaren are holding them back because they're quite special.

Trust me - where P1 is concerned, the best is yet to come.

For those who've had the fantastic opportunity to see and experience the yellow Geneva P1 in person, was a chassis or registry number spotted anywhere? Thanks in advance.

ADW

The link that you've included in your signature isn't working, atmclf1lmxp1lm. Oops!
Is anyone else having the same problem?

[atmclf1lmxp1lm]

Love this shot. Screen-capped by autoworldcar.com from the Next Steps Toward Production video, I believe. I personally love the lighting effects, though I understand that it may not be to everyone's taste.

ADW

[6th element]

Originally Posted by atmclf1lmxp1lm

Love this shot. Screen-capped by autoworldcar.com from the Next Steps Toward Production video, I believe. I personally love the lighting effects, though I understand that it may not be to everyone's taste.

ADW

Love that pic, thanks for posting! It looks all business, especially at that ride height!

[MitchF1GTR]

Alright, it's time to rob a bank. The exterior, the interior, everything about this car I love. God damn....