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12C or new GT3?

22K views 86 replies 41 participants last post by  isv 
#1 ·
Thinking about taking the plunge and getting a used 12C. Has to be orange (I think). Probably a spider, since there are so few tradeoffs in the 12C platform. Budget may put me closer to a coupe however.

I would be moving from a 911 4S, which I love and which I would like to avoid selling... but likely will if I upgrade to something in this price range.

Posted here a week or two ago on getting a 12C and what to consider. Now I wanted input from the McLaren side of things on pros/cons of getting a 12C vs. getting a brand new 991.2 (next facelift) GT3. Which will of course also have to be orange.

Maybe this is a bit apples/oranges but my expectations are:
1) Both will be a blast to drive
2) Both are similar-ish in terms of performance (slight edge to the 12C, I think, but probably not much)
3) Both will cost me a similar amount up-front (after adding a warranty to the 12C...)
4) I expect both will hold value pretty well (can't envision either dropping below $100K in next 5 years, other than following a big market shock)

In both cases, and even for my current 4S, they would be weekend cars only. Figure about 1k-3k miles per year.

Appreciate thoughts and feedback. Realize it is a personal preference decision...
 
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#2 ·
Hands down the 12c in my opinion. I owned a 2005 Carrera S Cab. Great car, great reliability low maintenance cost but no "it " factor. When I looked to upgrade I considered a Turbo S, GT3 or GT3RS. The problem is all the high end
Porsches while great cars look the same and feel the same.


I bought my 12c and love it because it drives great, you have a normal suspension setting that won't rattle your kidneys which the GT3 doesn't. Also it has the "it" factor. You rarely see another one. People love to take pictures and look at your
car. For me with my love of sports cars this car combines performance with exotic that you won't get from Porsche except the 918.


Of all the cars I have owned the 12c and I am sure the 570 and 650s will do the same, combines all of the things I have looked for in a car into one car....At an incredibly reasonable price compared to other exotics.
 
#5 ·
+1

I completely agree. I contemplated the same thing (used 12C vs used GT3 or Turbo S) when I got my 12C a little over a year ago. The 12C is so much more exciting to drive and own than a Porsche. The PCC suspension is wonderful (reasonably gentle yet handles so well). The car is lightening quick. The DCT SSG transmission shifts gears so fast. The 12C is a true EXOTIC SUPERCAR whereas the Porsches are sports cars.

The only issue you may have with the 12C is the extreme amount of attention you get. You can't go anywhere without drawing attention. All 911s (even GT3s and TTSs) just get passed over in parking lots and gas stations (at least here in So Cal). The amount of attention you get with a 12C is ridiculous. You just need to remember to be polite and kind to everyone who comes up to you with questions and compliments...
 
#3 ·
12c hands down if you want something more exciting to drive. If you want to blend in then the gt3 in manual would be a nice choice. You just get sooo much more for your money w the 12c. Carbon tub, active aero, active suspension, twin turbo / rwd, amazing handling and looks and feels like an occasion to drive.

Porsches are great... but Imo overvalued vs. 12c which is undervalued and the better car & deal. Get one before others fig this out and price go up on the 12c's.
 
#4 ·
If you can get the gt3 at list without markup get it. It's almost a no risk trade (perhaps less so in the US where you are vs the UK).

The 12c's will always be there and Mclaren are making variations on the same theme (turbo, dual clutch, mid engine sports car), there aren't very many new NA 9k rpm cars you can get so the gt3 genuinely offers something different. You can always sell the gt3 for little or no loss within a few months if you really still want the 12c but at least then you can make the choice between the 2.
 
#7 ·
I think you will be surprised how the 12C is beyond he Porsche in terms of performance. It's comparing a sports car to a legitimate supercar. Different leagues despite auto journalist reviews.

I went from 911 TTS to the 12C and it was a bit step up in many regards. Plus it has billionaire doors!

All that said, the GT3 will be a great investment car. Buy list if possible, keep for a year, the sell at 1.25-1.5 list (same as 991.1 GT3 was doing).
 
#30 ·
By numbers yes. But the driving experience of the GT3 manual must be good as the GT4 manual was great. At normal driving speeds, the GT4 was a more fun driving experience than driving a 675 to be honest. But I love manuals, so the experience of shifting and driving is something that I love. On track and on highway, the McLaren's dominate.
 
#8 ·
Great responses (even if a bit biased, though not unexpectedly so!).

The attention aspect is funny... being in Michigan has meant that I get an unusual amount of attention even in my somewhat under-the-radar 911, if only because it isn't a vette or mustang. I can only imagine what an orange 12C would do, though I don't think an orange GT3 is going to be all that subtle either.

The super car aspect of it is pretty alluring. I used to be a big fan of Ferrari but I've found their customer treatment pretty poor overall and no longer really lust over the cars.

Porsche has treated me very well and I'm a big fan of the brand and the product, even if most of what I see on the road today are their SUVs doing grocery store runs. The GT3 will be much more familiar and less of a "step up" in many respects, including for the reasons many of you have mentioned. Though I don't really think there is a whole lot of performance gap at that level vs. a 12C. Porsche is notoriously conservative with their stats and are estimating 3.2 sec 0-60 time, which likely means it is going to be a sub-3 second, naturally aspirated rwd car. Pretty impressive!

I am guessing that driving a 12C is more of an event. The thought of having one in my garage...
 
#10 ·
Get the 12c... the porsche gt3 manual is one of the best Porsche's youll have an opportunity to get, but between the two, you get sooo much more with the mcLaren. I grew up in Michigan, I would love to bring my Mclaren back to east Lansing to see the responses :) maybe road trip this summer from Chicago.
 
#11 ·
Find Chris Harris' YouTube video on comparing the GT3RS vs Aston Martin GT12 vs 650s. There is an unquestionable performance gap from the best of Porsche (barring 918) to the Big Boys. The 12c and 650s are very similar so not much in it there. Then go drive a 12C.

After that, the performance gap should be more real than speculation for you.

Either way you go, can't lose!
 
#13 ·
"slight edge to the 12c???" LOL!

The GT3 is a special car that provides a different experience, but having gone from a GT3 to a 12c I can tell you they are nowhere near close in performance except maybe on a very tight track, regardless of the 500hp the new now will have.

Much wider breadth of ability in the 12c in my opinion, and while GT3's are relatively rare, the 12c is rarer still.

With what the 12c's are currently listing for, it's an absolute no brainer.
 
#14 ·
I'm curious what type of driving you do that would make you change from a 4s to a GT3?

if its just "because and for fun" I get that.

If you worry about reliability and updated technology get the gt3. you will have full support, easy to get things taken care of and plenty of indy shops and dealers to chose from.

for something different, you got to get your self into a spyder 12c. And be prepared to deal with the headaches if there are any. expensive dealers/so so support
warranty cost.

I think the 12c at any year, currently will have minimal depreciation, so it might be worth it to try it out. if you dont like it, back to the 991.2 is easy.
 
#25 · (Edited)
McLaren may have moved past the 12C but Cutting edge 911s are still not in the same league as Mclaren's first attempt at a mass produced road car. The 12C is like the E-type in 1961. If you have driven an early E-type you'll be amazed at how good it is for a 56 year old car. My 12C may be 5 years old but it's still a master piece of engineering and it's hard to tell the difference between it and a 650S. In my opinion it's still better than a 570 and much better than any 911. In 56 years we will be talking about the 12c like we talk about series 1 E-types.

Swipe doors and outside latches (E-type enthusiast will know what I mean).
 
#21 ·
Lava Orange is a $4k option for the new gt3. I did explore PTS options with my dealer as well but that orange is pretty spot on.

I may want the option to track my car (my 4s does not get tracked) but it would be predominantly street driving.

I am leaning 12c but as another poster pointed out, the lack of a local dealer here does concern me a bit.

As for the latest/greatest tech, I really don't care. The driving experience overall is paramount, though I don't want to be in a position where I am dealing with 5 figure repair bills (so will likely add a warranty to the 12c).
 
#18 · (Edited)
Others provide opinions, I will provide a datapoint.

I'm a big Porsche fan. I've owned "3.5" GT3s, including the 996 I built out to 4.0 liters myself.

When I got an allocation for a 2016 GT3, I sold my 12C and took a big financial loss in the process, because I'm a big fan of GT3s and it was the "smart" choice. The car would not depreciate, and it was under factory warranty for 4 years, and it's a GT3, so you know it's good.

The 991 GT3 lasted 3 months before I sold it.

After the 12C, the GT3 just wasn't exciting. Now I'm in a 650S. I'm again going to lose a lot in depreciation, but it's worth it.

If you get the GT3, don't drive a McLaren. Any McLaren.

By the way, I just picked up a Macan Turbo, for ski/camping/off-road duty. Until McLaren starts making SUVs, I will continue to buy Porsches.
 

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#23 · (Edited)
+1

I current own a 1996 993TT, a 2005 996 Turbo S (tuned), and a 2011 997 Turbo S (tuned)! One of my good friends has a 997 GT3 and I've driven that as well. Love them all, kind of like an old girlfriend. The 12C is like you are dating a lady with the looks of a super model and rocks your world like a pornstar in the bedroom!

I also have a 12C (sold the first one and had to find a 2nd one because I missed it so bad). I've either owned or driven almost every exotic built, except for any Bugatti, Konesseggisssessess, or Pagani's.

I can only encourage you to find someone that will help you get some real seat time in the actual Porsche platform of your desire, and also the McLaren platform of your desire BEFORE you spend the money on either of them.


As you can probably tell, the majority of Mac owners here have all had a taste of what Porsche delivers on almost every level... And all of those previous owners are all telling you to save yourself some time and money and to skip that rung on the ladder as you climb toward the top!

With Porsche, unless you are getting the 918 Spider, you are just getting a great Sports Car. And it is one of the best SPORTS Cars built. If you want something closer to Porsche in the McLaren platform, that's the 570 platform designed to compete and out-do the competition in that segment. Check it out as well.

The 12C is a SUPER CAR and is 99% the same car as the 650S under the cosmetic exterior face lift! Don't let the McLaren Sales Brochure fool you... Same power plant, same transmission, same chassis, same dimensions save for a few cosmetic changes... throw a tune on the 12c for another 100hp to 200hp increase depending on the tuner and mods. That is MIND BLOWING!


Because of some marketing and sales blasphemy out of McLaren themselves, the 12C lost lots of value really quickly and is now the SUPER CAR value of a lifetime... I'm thrilled the value has gotten so low that somebody like me with only Porsche Turbo money can afford a car a true super car built from the drawing board up with Formula One DNA.

Wishing you the best on this journey to find the "one" best car for you... Let's us know what you finally end up with.
 

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#24 ·
991.2 is incremental improvement at best if you do not do manual. I am guessing it will be like diff between 997.1 and 991.2 GT3s. 12C has depreciated already and is rocket. GT3s will depreciate if you add miles and don't spec it in a popular combo.

In the end, manual vs dual clutch is the real choice here. If you want manual, you only have one option. If you want dual clutch, then 12C is a much more of an "event" drive than a GT3. Same could be said about all cars in that class: F430 Scud, 458 Italia, etc.
 
#28 ·
Im excited about either option. Really am leaning 12c and ideally can swing it and still keep my (manual) 911... I will keep everyone posted and hopefully will be an owner on this site in the next few months :)

And if I do end up going gt3, no hate intended!
 
#34 ·
The GT4 is a great car. But no way is it better than my 650. I think the manual and my lwb made it the fun package that it was. But it was just too slow for me. Still. I barely lost any money on owning it. I was on the list for the new 991.2 manual gt3 but after getting this 650 spider, I will pass. I find myself doing less track days and this hardtop retractable is so much more enjoyable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#35 ·
Since we're going off topic, I'll add that a GT4 is way more fun than a 991 GT3. It is more fun at low speeds, it sounds better most of the time, it's more engaging, it's fast enough. I swapped my GT3 for a friend's GT4 one weekend, and ended up selling my GT3 immediately after getting the car back. I only found the GT3 fun at 100% throttle and 9k shifts, which isn't a readily repeatable thing in real world driving. I already knew I liked the McLaren formula better, but driving the GT4 was the straw that broke the camel's back.

For a <$100k budget, the GT4 comes with my highest recommendation.
 
#47 ·
Regarding reliability, tell that to the 991 guys on their 3rd engine, the 997.2 guys that had failed centerlocks and totalled their cars on the track, the 997.2 RS guys that swallowed intake bolts and had cam bolts back out thereby grenading engines, and the rest of the guys with failed fittings and catastrophic coolant loss.

I love Porsche, but it's hard to praise the reliability of the GT3 line. I know of some very smart people that are working on aftermarket engine internal upgrades (valvetrain) for 991.1 to prevent engine failures. These are 3 year old cars!!

Now, the 991.2 will feature an entirely new fixed valvetrain without hydraulic adjustment (no lifters) that miraculously never needs adjustment.

We will see just how reliable they prove to be once they are in customer hands.

My McLarens have been extremely reliable and have never stranded me.
 
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