[bruce]

There is no tyre pump with the car ,there is with a 458! What use is a foam injection canister if you have a puncture but no pump to inflate the tyre!

There is a cover with all Ferrari Cars and not with MP4 12c

458 has a 4 year guarantee and 7 year free and inclusive service agreement!

I realise this is known but these are very expensive and necessary add ons that Ferrari offer free as well as ceramic brakes.

A few other points as well even more important imop

Does any of this matter to others on here

I only make the points as I read everywhere about 0.00001 second differences in lap times but this is a road car so surely matters but I have never seen mentioned elsewhere

What do you think

[Squirrel]

I think that McLaren should at the very least match the Ferrari package as that surely forms part of Ron's advanced pledge to beat the competition in every measurable way?

Price and specification are clearly measurable!

[6th element]

Fair points, bruce.

I think Ferrari's new service plan was perhaps too recent for McLaren to factor into the immediate business plan (in fact, it was probably a reaction to McLaren entering the market), but I think McLaren will be forced to address it once the pent up demand for the 12C is met.

As far as CCBs, yes I would have loved to get mine included as standard, but I gather some others here would have the standard brakes even if the CCBs were a no cost option. I think it is advantageous to have the choice, so the only other option would have been for Mc to discount the base price, which also would have been great for us, but not so much for the brand identity, I think.

For me, there is no comparison of the 458 to the 12C, as the Ferrari is yesterday's supercar chassis tech. McLaren has brought a carbon tub and other real innovations to the segment and, were they not a startup of sorts, should probably be priced at a premium to the incumbents.

[andy c]

Originally Posted by 6th element

Fair points, bruce.

I think Ferrari's new service plan was perhaps too recent for McLaren to factor into the immediate business plan (in fact, it was probably a reaction to McLaren entering the market), but I think McLaren will be forced to address it once the pent up demand for the 12C is met.

As far as CCBs, yes I would have loved to get mine included as standard, but I gather some others here would have the standard brakes even if the CCBs were a no cost option. I think it is advantageous to have the choice, so the only other option would have been for Mc to discount the base price, which also would have been great for us, but not so much for the brand identity, I think.

For me, there is no comparison of the 458 to the 12C, as the Ferrari is yesterday's supercar chassis tech. McLaren has brought a carbon tub and other real innovations to the segment and, were they not a startup of sorts, should probably be priced at a premium to the incumbents.

Totally agree with you 6e/Bruce,but there is no point at all having the weight of a canister of repare gunk if you cannot blow up the tyre,you are still going to have to call the emergancy service. Stupid question,but is the canister pressurised enough to blow up one tyre?? Dought it but i havent got my manual handy !! and for the volume it would have to be at least 200psi ,so very substantial and a health and safety nightmare

[bruce]

Andy F give you a pump and a repair canister. Macca give you a canister and no pump. I cannot believe the stupidity of it, so much so that I havent given up the search and wonder if I have missed something.
This weight thing is silly as well this is a road car with significant track capability so equip it like a road car and let the owner take out such necessities at the track and put them back when they leave. The obsession with weight may also have delayed Doris imop. Of course its important but so is the ability to keep driving if you get a puncture in the Alps as I did in an F car 2 years ago

[falb]

guys....come on.

The canister surely must be pressurized enough to fill the tire and thus the pump is not-needed. Don't they sell "fix-a-flat" in the UK? Would you rather have run-flat tires? Not me.

A car cover is that big of deal?

As for ceramic brakes...I think it is great that they offer an iron option. There is still great debate about the usefulness of one vs. the other. At least we have the option.

[andy c]

Originally Posted by bruce

Andy F give you a pump and a repair canister. Macca give you a canister and no pump. I cannot believe the stupidity of it, so much so that I havent given up the search and wonder if I have missed something.
This weight thing is silly as well this is a road car with significant track capability so equip it like a road car and let the owner take out such necessities at the track and put them back when they leave. The obsession with weight may also have delayed Doris imop. Of course its important but so is the ability to keep driving if you get a puncture in the Alps as I did in an F car 2 years ago

Just check the Manual for me Bruce im in the Alps at the moment,as falb says
it just might be pressurised.And my comment about the weight saving was just flipant, as we know it doesnt matter its just Mclaren.So that would mean the cannister is pressurised dosent it?? so no need for the HEAVY pump

[Senna]

Are the cars that good, that we have to complain about car covers and fix-a-flat. I am sure that the can has enough pressure to fill a tyre, but i for one wont use it. Thats what a mobile phone and a tow truck are for. I cant remember the last time i changed a tyre by the side of the road. Even on the SLR it had a tube of goo and a pump and i still had road side come out and do it. I dont want to mess up the rim.
As for the cover and brakes thats why its called an option, you can have it if you want it, but you dont have to pay for something your not going to use. I like that.
As for free service, ferrari have only now offer that in response to the 12C coming out, and because the 458 has such low service costs compared to previous F cars. But the prime reason is because most Ferrari owners drive the cars less than 2000 miles a year, so in 7 years they are paying for 3 oil changes . lets see how long they keep it in place if people start driving and breaking the cars everyday ! I feel McLaren want the cars to be enjoyed on the road not under their covers.

[bruce]

A lot of assumptions here and missing the point Senna. We were told the car would better the 458 in every measurable way. Well price is measurable and if you take the options mentioned the 12c is significantly more expensive than the Fcar despite assurances that the car is less expensive.
I can assure you telephoning for help when driving a mountain pass in Europe will be of no help if you are unfortunate to have a puncture and you will have to help yourself and what is provided is not adequate !

[macmadmark]

This seems a fuss about nothing. My Lotus has a foam canister, they are pressurised and just get you to a garage. I am ordering my 12c with steel brakes as they are incredibly effective and have great feel. Some guy had his 458 on a track day and trashed the brakes in just one day, costing around 10k for one day's "fun". I don't think he is going again. I had five days on track last year in my Lotus Elise (SC). The brakes were found to be worn out after four sessions before I realised, and I had to abort the fifth session and get two new disks and harder pads for approx £500. In future I will keep a closer eye on pad wear, and the harder pads still have good feel.

[McDc]

Regarding the guarantee, I don't mind if it's only 3 years instead of 4, but I was told there is no way to buy an additional official guarantee once the first 3 years are over. This is really a show stopper for me.

[andy c]

Originally Posted by McDc

Regarding the guarantee, I don't mind if it's only 3 years instead of 4, but I was told there is no way to buy an additional official guarantee once the first 3 years are over. This is really a show stopper for me.

This needs looking into! Not something that will keep values up and not good for the brand,im sure over the course of the next 2 years a program will be put in place,as they have to conform to the norm if they are to keep their customer service record to the standard they have already set

[McDc]

I really hope so Andy. Owning a supercar still worth north of 130K or so after 3 years and not having the option to buy a follow up guarantee is not good. And will of course lead to higher depreciation.

[andy c]

Originally Posted by McDc

I really hope so Andy. Owning a supercar still worth north of 130K or so after 3 years and not having the option to buy a follow up guarantee is not good. And will of course lead to higher depreciation.

At the MTC on tuesday and its on my list of questions

[bruce]

They are not focusing enough on resale imop and that is a BIG mistake.
Our Italians are brilliant albeit only with V8 and Woking need to achieve similar. Too many comparisons with Porsche for my liking